Page created 6 Jun 2003 by pedro
URL: http://www.thematrix.com/
For discussion of the Matrix franchise and/or other cyberpunky kind of stuff. ...as though the Internet needed another board with that subject.
Because we're going to start discussing plot points now. We're serious. Ok, here goes.
Seriously, that's not true. But you shouldn't be reading this if you don't want to know what happens in the movies.
What the free humans thought was the real world clearly isn't the real world, because neo couldn't have stopped the sentinels, and the architect said that Zion had been destroyed 6 times before. Who rebuilds that? Individual people? The 23 seeds of humanity or whatever? No way... it would be a monumental task to do that. It's all a part of the system -- a failsafe to catch those who don't believe in the first illusion.Like the person who goes from being a fundamentalist right-winger to a left-wing atheist crusader.
So neo chose to save Trinity instead of humanity, which meant that the matrix survives, right? But the people in Zion don't... and I assume that's NOT what the Architect wanted neo to do...? Or not? This is one reason I need to see the movie again. Because the way the Architect was talking about "this time it's focused on one woman" made it seem like Neo was "supposed" to save Trinity at the expense of Zion... but I don't know how that helps or hurts the matrix... and if zion served a purpose in the matrix (the second level of the matrix, let's say), what happens now that it's been destroyed? Again, this is the main reason I want to see the movie again.
The next thing is about the "feral" programs. The Oracle has been "helping" Neo -- although for all we know, she's guiding him to serve her own purpose. Or in her words, she's just playing her part -- since the Oracle doesn't seem to believe in choice. But are the Oracle and Seraph friendly? What, if anything do they have to gain from the "destruction" of the Matrix. I think (right now) that it's not the destruction, but a reordering -- they humans and machines need each other. The Oracle and Seraph need to be freed from the exile imposed upon them by the agents and other "evil" programs. The Keymaster certainly put his life on the line to help them -- however he was not killed by the architect, but by the Agents Smith.
This brings up the next question -- what's up with the Agents Smith? Neo obviously affected him in a strange way, what with the cloning and the independence and stuff. So Agents Smith is independent. He's not an "Agent" anymore. Was this a part of the "unbalanced equation" the Architect spoke of? If so, then the movies are just a pointless exercies in watching inevitability. So I reject that, instead believing that Neo is truly unique somehow, and that Agents Smith are also not a part of the regular plan... but how that figures into the story, I don't know. Because if you think about it, Smiths weren't really working for the Matrix... it's like they just wanted to kill Neo.
That said, there are two other points that come to mind -- one is this -- when Neo was tlaking to the architect, they talk about the program that came up with the current matrix system -- and she's referred to as a woman. Neo says, "the oracle?" and the architect brushes him off -- was that in acknoledgement? Or was it just a brush off? If it was a brushoff, then who is the woman? I can think of only one other female lead in the movie, and that would make for an interesting third movie, to be sure. And might, while we're at it, make more sense of how she "resurrected" neo with her magical kiss.
THe last point I'm interested in is, who was on the table in the Hammer (or whatever that ship was called) by neo? I couldn't recognize the face. I thought it was Cypher for asecond, but that didn't look quite right. And who was the weirdo in Zion with the knife cutting his hand... that was bizarre as well. I read somewhere that the guy on the table was Agent Smith -- which would correlate to Neo's dream where the Agent "clones" himeself and goes through the phone into the "real world."
This would seem to support the "double matrix" idea -- Neo "freed" Agent Smith, and now he can leave "the matrix" just like Neo can... but what lies "beneath"? And what is truly at the core of the matrix? I don't know.
Anyway... I should get back to work. Interested in any/all responses.
"What do you all think of this explanation regarding the happenings in "The Matrix: Reloaded":Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,Major Spoilers,
ONE MORE TIME - MAJOR, MAJOR SPOILERS
The first thing I recommend is that you try to remove your ego, people all have them - so they believe that the movie must be about people. But actually it is about software and mainframe code.
The main computer has been caught in a loop cycle for 5 iterations, and it is trying to find a variance that will break this cycle by utilizing a random bit anomaly piece of software (Neo), to allow it to fully complete its cycle. It has tried this before, but has always failed and in its attempts.
It is trying to factor in all variables of its program to make absolute sure of complete success before it attempts to actually implement the complete procedure, like any good piece of software (debugging iteself - "it is the why that is important").
Beta software waiting to go gold. The only factor that was not counted on was an anomaly of two programs intersecting and one becoming a self-replicating virus bent on absolute destruction (Smith), and the anomoly (Neo) complementing his program with protectorate software. This is a brilliant movie, that once you wrap your head around, is really just an ultimate version of Tron with no human watchers (Jeff Bridges), of a computer SuperNoc running through a simulation with all possible factors being worked first, before it initializes the program for real.
If Neo completes his role and meets his ultimate purpose as software, then our hero allows the computer to see all variances that it will need to contend with, so that it can fully implement the real program on our world.
Matrix - main base operating system.
Zion - secondary operating system for software that can no longer can function in main sytem - but can be utilized to build new a matrix system.
Neo - Random bit anomaly software for breaking loop cycle utilized by the Oracle and Architect
Trinity - complement software to aid in Neo's completion of purpose.
Morpheus and crew - collector programs for mainframe to try to enable the end of the loop cycle.
Architect - Mainframe operating system.
Oracle - old Macro Software that has been part of all 5 iterations of the loop and can see all variances.
Oracle's Protector, Seraph - Mainframe hard code software.
Merovingian - old Neo that did not fully implement objective in previous beta version.
Merovingian's wife - Old Trinity code. - "He used to be just like you", she told Neo. That's why she wanted a kiss. She used to be in Trinity's position and new what a kiss with The One felt like.
Twins, and Merovingian's guards - old base black ice protector code.
Head Counselor in Zion - Advisor for Mainframe that advises Neo along his upgrade to not touch the main bios (engineering) systems.
Key Maker - come on now, too easy, a simple key generator.
Smith - self-replicating virus - now capable of moving to either system infused with anomaly code from Neo (he becomes the Bane character seen trying to kill Neo with a blade and, obviously, at the end film after he triggered the electric pulse that caused five ships to be slaughtered.
Additionally Morpheus said in the first that only a free mind is able to do the things they can do in the matrix. The architect has freed Neo's mind so he is able to use some of his 'powers' to stop the Setinels. He can do it because Zion is a part of the matrix. Thoughts? It certainly makes sense to me. Where it leads to in 'Revolutions' I have no idea. Neo defeating the machines only to see all humans wake up in pools of pink ooze, hungry and forced to eat dirt, doesn't sound like a happy ending to me. Agree, Disagree."
Merovingian - old Neo that did not fully implement objective in previous beta version.Merovingian's wife - Old Trinity code. - "He used to be just like you", she told Neo. That's why she wanted a kiss. She used to be in Trinity's position and new what a kiss with The One felt like.
Yes, yes, yes!
Is what if the whole "aliens harvesting human bodies" thing isn't true? I mean, that really doesn't make biological sense, unless they need human consciousness for something else. Using humans as energy factories? Please. Poop factories, maybe.The whole thing could be a sentient computer system stuck in some kind of simulation, where computer AI programs can interact with the "actual" AI constructs (the humans who think they're real, but aren't).
Or... it could all just be a dream. Would that be RAD?!?!?!?!
(ha ha)
I went to see the movie again last night one of the things the merovingian mentions to neo i that he handled his predecessors. I'm incined to believe the Oracle: that the merovingian is one of the oldest programs in exile. As for the merovingian's wife, well, she's not so much a trinity figure as a woman who has discovered that all the money and all the control (power) can't substitute for true love. It may sound cheesy, but I stand by my assertion that this movie is about love and hope. And when she says that their love (neo & trinity's) is not meant to last, she is saying that partly out of her own bitterness and partly because she has seen the other "one's" and knows that they are destined to go through the door the architect wants them to go through. But they miscalculated. Neo is not only an anomaly to the matrix, he is an anomaly to through control program.I'm still not sure if I shoul believe everything the architect says yet, but it makes sense for the most part. I do think that the world of zion is the real, physical world. First there is Morpheus' speech in the temple. It's not that there are any giveaway's there but I just want it to be the last remaining free humans standing together not-afraid as the machines advance in staggering numbers to kill them all. Second, when the squids bomb the nebuchadnezzer there are no ripples in reality. If I recall, pretty much every explosion in the matrix are doctored up with the ripples in the fabric. Of course the "real" world could be just a better program. Because you have to wonder how Neo stopped those squids. Are they somehow connected to him? Is he really a piece of code created by the architect and given a human body? Or was the Hammer close enough to EMP them and we've been led to believe that Neo stopped them?
I think the guy in the bed next to Neo is the dude Smith phoned into. I think his name was Bane, maybe. Why was he not killed by the sentinels? Maybe he has the same power to stop them that Neo does. There was that whole thing about a part of Neo being copied onto Smith (more credence to the Neo-as-a-program theory).
It was interesting to see it in the light of the sequel.They definitely didn't leave many things hanging, kind of like in Episode IV, but there are still some things that look forward to the new movies, like Agent Smith's monologue about freedom, and hating the stink of the humans, and all that stuff.
I was also reminded about how awesome Marcus Chong (adopted son of Tommy Chong (!)) was as Tank compared to the guy who plays Link... Tank just had a cool feeling about him -- he was eager, but tough, and obviously brilliant... and I thought his "attitude" was more believeable. Like the part where he's training Neo, and he says the line about the procedural programs being "seriously boring sh*t!" It's fun to hear him spit out that line, whereas I think a lot of other actors couldn't pull it off.
I heard that Marcus wanted too much money so they cut him... without having any more information, I think I'd fire my manager if I were him.
I was seriously disappointed that Tank was not in reloaded. Link was such a weenie in comparison.a search turned up a boycott page which linked to this reuter's article
correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't tank killed off in the first Matrix by the traitor guy? That was the impression I got while he got shot up with the lightning gun or whatever gun he got shot with was. I checked out this entree to give reloaded the benefit of a doubt. I really didn't enjoy this film at all, but for different reasons outside of story line. so I figured you guys would have more detailed ideas and insights as far as what may or may not be going on. I am a little bias to the film because I really didn't care too much about the first one. Ultamately, the story is genuine, but the dialogue is wretched, the acting is sub par, and I came to the realization that I dispise the fight scenes for my own reasons. All the camera work was recycled from the first matrix, which made me feel like I was watching the first one all over again. I just wish somebody else wrote the script, with different actors in mind for the parts. I kind of feel like The Animatrix has a lot of promise because I felt that The Matrix would have been much better and functional as an anime piece. I wonder why Star Wars still caps my interest despite everything I expressed about the Matrix. Nostalgia or something. I blame all the Star Wars references in the Muppet Babies. Man, I love the Muppet Babies.
you need to see Animatrix. it's right up your alley.
and just watch the Muppet Babies, now that's good times!
Seriously. Big ups to all MB lovers out there... good golly, I forgot how daggone funny that show was. Almost as funny as the real Muppet Show.Anyway, here are my take(s). Pedro, you and I have discussed some of this already, but I'm just putting this out there...
First, it didn't seem to me that Tank died, though it's plausible to think that he could have after sustaining the type of blow he received from Cypher's lightning gun thingy... in which case, you figure he was running mostly on adrenaline when he mustered up enough energy to get back at Cypher by killing him. Either way, though, he was a much better character than Link. Link, I felt, was way too "Black sidekick" for my tastes. Not that he wasn't enjoyable, but yeah, Tank had sort of a cool brightness, a rugged warrior/naive little boy combo that just really seemed to work.
Yeah, there's that.
Plus...
well... plus nothin. There's more I could say later. Dag, it's almost midnight. Contrary to popular opinion, I do have a life.
So, as the base for my theory on what's really happening, I'm saying that we've got the whole Matrix-within-a-Matrix thing. Agent Smith realized this by the start of the movie, and Neo realized it by the end. This is how Smith can posess the "free" humans and how Neo stopped the spider.
I'm sticking with the premise that the people within the Matrix are humans, though (except for the obvious programs like the agents, oracle, etc). My theory is that everything happened with the war against the robots exactly as the people in Zion believe, except for one difference: The humans won. Of course, after destroying the evil giant acid-spitting robots bent on world domination, there wasn't much of a world left, what with the blackened sky and fallout and whatnot. So, the humans created a giant system that they all plugged into to wait out the devestation and allow life to grow back outside. Of course, cryogenics is a pipe dream, so the only way for humanity to survive is to plug everyone into one (or possibly more!) giant virtual reality systems and have them pretend to live out their lives as they did before all of the robot wars and violence broke out.
So, my theory is that at the end of the next movie, everybody wakes up.
good theory I like it.Oh, and the reason that Tank died in the last movie is because the actor wanted too much money to come back and play Tank again. So, at the last minute all the Tank line where changed to Link lines, and a little back story was added in.
says, "I lost two brothers to that ship..." and I don't think she meant that Tank went off and joined the circus after getting back from the Neb.Yeah, J/G, we talked about this at the sub place that day -- Link is a little too caricatured for my taste. That may be just how the character was played... but I didn't care for it.
I like that theory a LOT. That makes a lot of sense.Although these are the questions I would have, assuming that's true:
What about the liquified-dead-fed-intravenously-to-the-living thing? Would that part just not be true at all? Because then that would prove Morpheus to be an even bigger quack than he is portrayed to be now (only semi-quacky/visionary).
Well, if they're all plugged into machines, maybe it only makes sense that they recycle their dead bodies. It's better than burying them in the radioactive ground.But what about the whole "destruction of Zion" thing... if humans created this system to "sleep away" the nuclear winter, wouldn't it be terrible if every so often they have to go and flush everyone who lives in zion down the toilet? I guess they'd be the anomalies in that sense though, eh?
Well, there are several points I will use to try to explain how a system designed to ensure the survival of humanity can kill off rather large populations of humans.
If you'll remember, in the first movie, Agent Smith mentions that the original Matrix was a veritable paradise, but the majority of the population couldn't accept it. Of course, I don't believe that the Agents are aware of the several iterations of the Matrix between that first one and the current one, nor many of the other programs.
As the Architect explained, there is still a portion of the population which cannot accept the current Matrix. These people are separated into Zion. This serves two purposes: Removing these individuals from the mainstream Matrix genepool as well as separating the anomalous individuals for observation and study.
Now, the Architect is not tasked with keeping humans alive, he is tasked with keeping humanity alive. The two purposes of Zion are a means to this task, both allowing him to better tweak the Matrix to cut down on the people who can escape the Matrix, as well as good ol' artificial selection to cut down on the genetics which give rise to these escapees.
Also, a thought just occured to me: maybe Neo isn't a human, but the Architect's attempt to create a software model of a human, so he can make the nexter version of the Matrix more acceptable to humans.
Well, there you are. I'm not sure if any of that made any sense, but it's written down, anyway.