(null)Created 17 May 2002 at 22:07 UTC by blvdgirl, last modified 17 May 2002 at 22:08 UTC by blvdgirl.
URL: http://www.starwars.com/Notes: ...The 2nd movie has been out for a two days now, somebody in this diner must have seen it. Polish your geek, impress your friends, lord over the multitude with your high opinions- let us know what you thought/think about the ongoing saga. Did you feel the force? Is the romantic plot nice or did it make you want to gag? Did Jar Jar die yet? You follow- let us (and/or the movie) have it.
... I was hoping someone would dig this one out of the refridgerator. I've heard there's no Jar-Jar, but I've not seen it yet. It's the first star wars movie (barring the VERY first one) that I didn't see on opening day. Jay pulled a miracle in getting opening night tickets in DC for the last one (he's sweet) but we decided not to bother this time. Can't wait to hear some reviews of if it is truly worth seeing in the theater or not...
that sounds like a bad euphemism.
back to the subject at hand, i don't want to rehash the post-movie discussion from the Wood. but there were some great points made. i will try to bring up a few.
- bad dialogue - Lucas has never gotten this part right, and now its become part of the charm. don't expect any Oscars folks.
- foreshadowing - i don't think im giving anything away here, because these movies come before, hence they lead into the story we already know. i think that this is done pretty decently, all told.
- effects/CGI/animation - blended better than Phantom. cool new ships, yoda has more facial expression now. go figure.
- love scenes - contrived, bad teen-emotion love story. i wasn't thrilled with the way this worked. it could have been really good.
- aliens - I have a personal thing against S.F. movies and their depiction of aliens. not ALL S.F. movies fall under this stigma, but there are too many that do. these are beings that evolved in a totally different environment, with a totally different ecosphere, atmosphere, planetary history, etc. yet somehow they are all humanoid. by humanoid i mean 2 eyes, 4 limbs, walking upright, head-on-neck-on-shoulders, faces arranged eyes-nose-mouth, digits on 'hands' and 'feet' etc. SW doesn't completely follow this, but mostly. there are a couple exceptions. Jabba, Wattoo, the other creatures on the planet where the clonewars start, and the cook in the diner (who has 4 arms, but is so utterly a human caricature that it completely offsets any points for the 4-arm thing). and this doesn't apply to the 'Beasts' of the movies. but they are just that, beasts, in the service of the bad guys or the good. but not really sentient rational creatures themselves. more like pets. for once i'd like to see aliens with their faces arranged on their torsos, or smell-organs like pores all over their skin, or that have no legs, but propel themselves by a sort of oozing forth. maybe something with a lot of eyes, on the front and back of its body, with a mouth to differentiate front and back.
that last point wasn't brought up at the wood because we ran out of time. but i was going to say it eventually.
I must say, when Star Wars appeared on the screen followed by the floating scene scenario- I felt like I was full of all of the eager anticipation of a ten year old. It was terrific! I laughed, I cheered, I chringed in all the appropriate places. So, while there were a few things that I could have lived without..."this is my girlfriend, Veru"...."this is such a drag"...I have very little desire to attack this film as I did the first one. Oh, and Yoda is my hero.
Yeah, amy, I know what you mean. I mean, I understand everyone's criticisms, but I really don't feel like attacking it so much... I mean, it's pretty cool.Don't get me wrong. I could make several incredible points about what's wrong with this movie. But I'd just rather not.
Haha.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean, I understand everyone's criticisms, but I really don't feel like attacking it so much... I mean, it's pretty cool.Don't get me wrong. I could make several incredible points about what's wrong with this diner. But I'd just rather not.
Haha
Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean, I understand everyone's criticisms, but I really don't feel like attacking him so much... I mean, he's pretty cool.
Don't get me wrong. I could make several incredible points about what's wrong with raskol. But I'd just rather not.
Haha
:[
I saw the AotC on Wednesday night at the Uptown Theater on Connecticut. Very nice theater with a huge wraparound screen and Dolby Digital sound. I erally enjoyed it. At first it was just a feeling of relief that it didn't suck and then it turned into enjoyment. There were defintely flaws (the love scenes elicited laughter), but overall I think it was a good movie. I still think that Lucas is a ripoff artist and pilfers most of his idea from the sci-fi canon, but I still had fun watching Yoda whoop ass.
I've seen it on both a regular film projector and a digital one, and I must say that it was better on the digital. It only makes a big difference in a couple of scenes (the yoda fight is one), but at least during some of the love story parts you can trick your brain into thinking about how sharp the picture is, instead of how bad the dialog is.
i went and saw it again last night. i did like it alot better the second time. i almost walked out the first time i saw it. but, last night i knew when the bad stuff was coming up and tried to over look them. there is still alot of problems i have with the movie i.e.
shaft windu
r-2 flying
some of the sword fighting
love story writting
and a few others but, overall i did like better.
there are 3 beasts that come out to attack annie, amidala, and obi wan (you can't miss them). each one comes out and does its obligatory mean pause and growl. at least 2 of the three growls i am almost positive are sound clips from the podracers in phantom menace. someone back me up on this...
So wait, are you guys talking about Star Wars Babies? YOu know, like Muppet Babies, only with a little baby darth vader and a young Kenobi? Man, talk about some sorry fanfic. How'd they ever get this stuff into the theaters? WOn't Lucas be suing them over this Attack of the CLones crap? These guys just don't know how to make a movie like Lucas does!Man, and when Lucas finally makes more Star Wars movies, they'll rock!
You know, even though my name is spelled with a 'k' it get's mispelled so often that when I see 'Lucas' I automatically think it's referring to me. And hey, if someone wants to buy me a fancy DV cam and a plethora of star wars toys, I'll make a movie and you guys can all do the voices. Speaking of voices, whatever happened to the audio dramam you recorded while in the land of damn good hotdogs?
I still have it on the four-track, I havne't had time to dump it down so that we can edit it... i haven't forgotten about it though, seriously!Peter
pedro, you need a staff
you need a resume?
Has anyone ever noticed that Count Dooku is big and tall with a booming English accent? Duh, right? Now tell me who seems more like Lord Vader, Anikin or Dooku? Riiiiight, now you're getting it. I see E3 as a cloack and dagger affair where the Clone Wars rage on, but someone is killing off the Jedi all clandestine-like. To me Dooku seemed ill in E2, and not just because Christopher Lee was 80 years old. They made him seem alittle out of breath after chopping Anikin's arm off. I'm sure he's a threat to Darth Sidious, and has thusly been poisoned to keep Dooku from getting too cocky and power hungry. By E3 Dooku should get the Vader mask and costume because lets face it, Christpher Lee will be like 84 by then. He can barely walk as it is. I think Anakin fighting a Vader-like Darth Tyrannus would be most cool. Althought, a close second would be a Darth Tyrannus with lizard skin. Maybe he was a changeling and we never knew.
star wars prequals are LAME dude!they should have a darth vader mc donalds toy become darth vader in episode three.... that'd catch EVERYONE by suprise!
Here's a question. If Anikin is so damn awesome and has the highest midichlorian count, why does he suck so much ass? No, seriously. I was hoping for the greatest saber battles ever. We saw a glorious ground battle, but the duel at the end was obviously a cartoon Christopher Lee head put on the body of his way thinner stunt double. Yoda let him get away instead of propelling the falling pillar into Dooku's craft. Did anyone else see that? My grandma can wield a lightsaber with greater aplomb. All Anikin is good for is slaughtering Tusken Raiders. They're animals!
here it is
Probably gonna head up North.btr
Dave
I need to get Hernando back on here. He is all excited about this new thing and I'm like, "Uh-huh, whatever." (Gee, that makes me sound so encouraging...I really just have no patience for Star Wars though). I need to get him on here with his kind so he has people to discuss this with.
After being so thoroughly disappointed by Episodes I and II I was ready to write off III but after trailer there's a glimmer of hope that it might actually be a good movie. maybe, just maybe...but then i remember how badly hayden acted and the 4th grade dialog and the overwhelming lack of realism.
I'll see it. Umbilical impulse. I am not expecting much.
but then I know how to make myself think like a 10 year old still, and what does realism and dialogue matter to a 10 year old?
...is getting a lot of good buzz.
Because now that all the annoying exposition was in the 2nd one, it should just be Jedi Ninja Freak Out....!I leave you with the wise words of the loveliest woman in the world;
"I liked Yoda better when he was a Muppet." --Mine liebchen
I was excited in '99 thinking, "This looks great!". Then it sucked. In 2002 I allowed myself to get suckered in again. "I'm sure it will be completely different from The Phantom Suck-suck." I allowed myself to get excited even though I knew George Lucas had written the script and there were like 40% more digital characters and one of them was still Jar-Jar. Lo and behold: A-Suck of the Clones sucked! In many ways, it sucked more than the suck-factory put out three years prior. Now I find myself watching trailors and reading reviews thinking, "this one will be the good one". Am I crazy? This is exactly what happened the last two times! Lucasfilm is really good at making trailors. It's the scripted stuff that sucks the southern end of a north-bound Bantha.
No spoilers, I promise: I desperately want to tell you about everything I just saw in Revenge of the Sith -- alas, that wouldn't be a Jedi-like thing to do. But I will say the movie is incredibly satisfying and worthy of the positive buzz it's been given thus far. I think I could even see it again in two weeks, and I know I never said that about Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones.Since it was a media screening, I didn't sit next to anyone in a Stormtrooper costume, and there were even some empty seats in the theater. But the crowd still cheered when the music swelled and that bright, canary-yellow "Star Wars" flashed across the screen. Later, more cheers erupted for Yoda, though I suppose I can't tell you why. (Yoda has several shining moments in Sith, as does Ewan McGregor, my favorite actor in Episodes I-III.)
What did I like the most about the flick? Well, the visual effects kept me too distracted to eat my popcorn: We see several new worlds this time around, and they range from heavenly to hellish. As an added bonus, Natalie Portman rocks the intergalactic maternity clothes!
As you may have heard, the PG-13-rated Sith is the darkest of the series; I feel for the kids whose parents won't let them see it. But I think George Lucas gives us everything we've been wanting here in just over two hours, including a perfect transition to the next movie. I left feeling complete, a little sad and, quite possibly, ready to watch Mark Hamill destroy the Death Star for the billionth time.
As for what I didn't like about Episode III, there is some dopey, lovey-dovey dialogue (but not as much as we heard in Clones), and I'll never be fully convinced that Hayden Christensen was the perfect casting choice for Anakin. But the special effects beat any other Star Wars movie, that's for sure -- it's as if, after all these years, technology and Lucas' brain finally caught up with each other. Posted 6:18 p.m.
andronicus took the words from my mouth.
I'm reservedly excited, but I'll believe it when I see it.
The more I see, which is a lot with everything on tv, the more I want to see it. I think it'll be a lot of fun, but that the best movie of the summer (blockbuster movie that is) will be Charlie and the Chocolate Factory because I mean come on it's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory!
i have no real expectations. but i got invited to go see the wednesday midnight showing with some people from work, so i'm going. we'll see how it goes.
That, as the wife pointed out, even for the two slug-nutty films before this, Lucas knows how to do a trailer. ('Course, some would argue that the trailers strung together are all you need to see, because they play to all his strengths and hide his weaknesses...(can you guess what mister curmudgeon's reply to his wife was???)The one with the Imperial March drum roll and--the short like 15 second one--with Anakin leading the troopers into that building gives me shivers . . .
Is John Williams British or American? Does anyone (pedro) know this?And if he's British, why the hell does Elton John have a knighthood and he doesn't? If we're talking in terms of providing the world memorable music? EVERYONE knows the Star Wars score...
imdb
He rises to the challenge. All Hail Pedro!
Is just a movie.Not great, not horrible. One cannot give Lucas credit for tying up loose ends because:
A. Not all loose ends were tied up (and if that counts as a spoiler, up yours, fanboy.)
2. The movie is SUPPOSED to tie up loose ends
More later. I must go now, for sleep.
btr
The Midichlorians
and i concur: not too bad. not too great.+some heavy resolutions -not enough resolutions +the transformations of certain key characters is pretty cool-looking -the dialogue is el stinko (did you expect anything more?)
i will save further commentary until everyone's had a fair chance to see it.
and i concur: not too bad. not too great.+some heavy resolutions
-not enough resolutions
+the transformations of certain key characters is pretty cool-looking
-the dialogue is el stinko (did you expect anything more?)
i will save further commentary until everyone's had a fair chance to see it.
gar.
I was pleasantly surprised. I hardly even squirmed in the bad dialogue moments, and I thought some moments were (like order 66) were very powerfully done... I don't know, maybe it's because I thought the last two were so lousey that I liked this one--much improvement.
If you have seen how the Jedis in Episode I and II are with lightsabers, it makes zero sense. Dressing it up with nice camera work doesn't make it powerful.btr
Dave
SPOILERS
I disagree about it making zero sense... It makes perfect sense. Like many tragic heroes before them, the Jedi were blinded by their own self-confidence and the guise of their lasting stability in the republic. I realize that any Jedi worth his or her salt on their guard should have been able to deal with it, but it was the suddenness, the unexpectedness that made them vulnerable. Call it pride or overconfidence, but they, the Jedi, just didn't anticipate that kind of challenge. They were naive. They'd been efficiently hood-winked. The force was out of balance in more ways than one, obviously. The Jedi weren't expecting it, so they weren't quick with the sabers. --That said, when I said I thought it was powerful, maybe I selected the wrong word. I used "powerful" because I had an emotional response to what was going on. Unnecessary loss always seems powerful to me.
There were a few scenes that were pretty good - order 66 and of course the Yoda fights - but overall I was underwhelmed. The action was what I expected, the story was what it had to be and not much more, the acting wasn't anything special (except Ewan McGregor - I thought his last scene with Anakin was the only really good perfomance in the movie)... but the thing that really killed it for me was the dialogue. I've never been able to easily stomach the cheesy dialogue in any of the SW films, but "Hold me like you did on Naboo" was a new low.
Better than I and II but still full of baneful dialog. Why is it that in all the movies the only person who can act is Obi-Wan? Anakin did all right with his tortured evil-face but he and Padme had zero chemistry. I also thought the digital universe blended better and looked real. The first two eps everything was shiny and digital and looked too perfect to be real. Maybe my glasses were dirty and maybe the digital fx have gotten way better but stuff just looked more realistic. Tying up more loose ends would have been nice. I can't really remember what happened in I and II so that didn't bother too much. Order 66 was a total farce. There's no way the Jedis just get slaughtered like that. They knew Palpatine was up to something so you'd think they would have been on guard.Favorite part of the movie: wookie planet!
You gotta love a wookie planet. I liked the movie, it wasn't spectacular, it wasn't well written at all, but for a summer blockbuster very entertaining and highly enjoyable. It made me want to watch the first-er last- three again, which is always a good feeling. Order 66 was dumb, but I think that if you're being stabbed in the back it's hard to protect yourself. The Padme Anakin love scenes would have been better if they just inserted the story boards and let us read it comic book style, but otherwise Anakin did a good job of looking evil. I do agree that Obi-Wan is the best acted role, but the best role still, and always will, go to Yoda, I mean come on it's Yoda!
list the movies, 1-6, in order of your favorite to least favorite.i guess mine would go:
Empire new hope jedi sith clones phantom menace
list the movies, 1-6, in order of your favorite to least favorite.i guess mine would go:
Empire
new hope
jedi
sith
clones
phantom menace
new hope
empire
jedi
sith
clones
phatmonNow, on any given day the first three might be shuffled around. Empire is proably the best movie of all six but I still love the campy goodness of Jedi and New Hope.
empire
new hope
jedi
phantom
sith
clones
TESB
ANH
ROTJ
AOTC is definitely last, and I think that I like ROTS better than TPM. but I need to see Phantom again... it's been years.
I liked "Order 66" -- the Jedi are not invincible, and this movie in particular stressed the failure of the Jedi order to perceive what was happening. The last place they would have expected backstabbing was from a clone army they bred themselves. Yes, the Jedi went down maybe a little too easy; but I think they just (literally) didn't see it coming.
Lots of other thoughts, but overall I was going into it with cautious optimism, and I feel like the movie exceeded my expectations.
disapointed.
At the end of Attack of the Clones, at least 200 hundred Jedi Knights [and I suppose a few Masters as well] take on countless more robots. Droids. Whatever. Terribly outnumbered they are. But they are Jedi, so what's the problem? The problem is what Yoda refers to earlier in that film - the Jedi Order has weakened. Not just from politics, not from the Sith Lord clouding foresight and attention. No, the Jedi have been defenders of the galaxy for almost 1,000 years at this point. They are proud and somewhat slacking. Now there is pride in a job well done, and then there is pride in ability and connection. Many Jedi, not just Anakin, were faltering with pride. Unlike Anakin, though, they weren't naturally awesome. What I mean is that after seeing the first 10 minutes of Phantom Menace I thought Luke Skywalker was the dullest Jedi ever. Obi-wan as Padawan could do more than Luke ever tried. But the truth is revealed that the Jedi we follow in the stories are the exceptional Jedi. Many Jedi kind of suck. Luckily, many regular people suck, so a sucky Jedi can wrangle sucky people easily. Not every Doctor is good, not every dentist, nor every professor or mom or kid. Lots of people suck at their jobs. I have had many jobs that I knew I was the weak link. G4 Media does not miss me [though my emails were hilarious, I thought]. The battle at the end of AOTC wiped out most of those Jedi. They lost to robots by just being shot at. No fancy moves, nothing. Bang, dead Jedi. Start with 200, end with maybe 30 [and quite a few without their lightsaber even...such wasted midichlorians! What are our Jedi Public Schools coming to?] Turns out Luke was awesome, just not schooled much [and even then only home schooled a little...He was Jedi Knight online certificated. All this is to say that I felt perfectly fine about the Order 66 wiping out so many of the Jedi. It would have been awesome to see the young Lord Vader hunt down all the Jedi and be responsible single handedly for taking them out. But that is not possible in one movie, and not the way Anakin was crafted. It is better this way, to see the cracks in the good and in the bad. The first guy taken out by the troops, Master Jedi Sigmund Freud, he held out for a while, but he was in the crossfire between clones and droids. So he had no chance. The girl Jedi seemed to be on assignment because she knew the area, not because she was a general or particularly good at fighting things behind her. So, she was leading or tracking, guiding, Force-in-tune with the path, and then taken out [wimpy, but not unbelievable]. As for the thing in the ship....well, Jedi or not, a ship can be blasted by its wingman rather easily. And speeder bikes do go fast, and Qui-gon did let us know that Jedi can't stop everything. Plus, these clone weren't attacking from any sort of anger or passion, no feelings to give away. Blank minds following orders. From one order to the next, all the same to them, so no change in Force atmosphere. So they weren't an easy read. I wonder in the new republic if they banned human cloning? Now, Yoda is awesome, but not the standard Jedi. He has hundred of years of practice with the force, listening, waiting, and meditating. He's seen a lot of stuff. Hell, he was there when the Jedi over threw the last ruling Sith. So not every Jedi will react as he does. All in all, I really like Sith, and think about quite a bit [if that didn't show]. It makes me sad. Not because it's the last one. I wasn't anticipating much [not like seeing talking penguins or the new herbie movie...oh boy] I am sad at the turn of Anakin. The loss of the heart. Thinking of him in that suit, staring out into space, not contemplating choking everyone, but thinking about a girl that he gave away everything to keep, and lost her first. Sad stuff. Emo sad. So I've gone back to see it a couple more times. I love the beginning, the friendship of Anakin and Obi-wan [best chemistry in the movie, sorry Natalie]. I love watching the turning of Anakin. All these years I thought it would be cool to see Darth Vader be mean. But I found out I like Anakin and I rather wished he stayed nice. I mean, the guy starts off the movie ready to ditch the mission priority to save a clone pilot. He's got a good heart. But, when something is tragic, tragedy follows. Of course dialogue was screwy at points. But I don't remember really being moved by Luke and Leia's great talk outside the ewok hut, revealing family ties. The bad lines have always been there. Enough for now, just wanted to jump in on the nerd convention here, because I love geeking hard core. And I would put my list as ...
A NEW HOPE [best stand alone film, I think. I'm wrong a lot though, but I'd watch it most readily.]THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK [best look and lines and development and ending]
REVENGE OF THE SITH ["I have failed you, Anakin." Kenobi is the best at breaking my heart]
<<<TIE>>> THE PHANTOM MENACE & THE RETURN OF THE JEDI [ROTJ opening is grand, but Han is puffy and blind, Fett gets the weakest axe, and of the three ending battles, the Vader-Luke-Emperor threesome is the only one with tension for me. But the theme of 'there's good in him' really affected me growing up. Bet you couldn't tell]
[I'm not sure why everyone hates TPM. Yes, I would have made it differently. More Jedi, more Obi-wan (why leave him on the ship and take the Gungan into town?) Less pod [looked cool, no emotion though for me] Better animatronics on the Viceroy and Gang, better voices too - but all the Jedi action, Darth Maul, and the force philosophy, debating with Yoda and Qui-Gon....I saw this 15 times in the theater..15 times...only fellowship of the ring beats that...I was 22 at the time, and had a job...still saw it 15 times...I liked something, and found it easy to get past Binks.]
ATTACK OF THE CLONES [this one has the most obvious filler, the most misdirection & the love affair was somewhat loveless, though the writing was perfect for characters that age in jobs that kept them emotionally and socially stunted - but I don't think they were going for verbal realism.. Anakin is young and talented, but with a crazy upbringing and youth thus far...so he whines and fights and pines and yells. I liked him. Thought he was perfect. Obi-wan had the Jedi Mullet, but you can get past that, no? I don't know why Mace Windu hates everyone? [I still think he's a good character, showing a powerful Jedi that isn't all philosophy. More action and head nodding]
I could probably go on but I have to cook dinner.
Then maybe see a movie...I wonder what's out now?
i didn't have a problem with Jedi being wiped out in this movie - nor as easily. i mean, we saw it coming, right? but 'Order 66'? when i heard it, i immediately imagined a bunch of dumb clones thumbing through a manual going 'hmmm. order 66. order 66. order 64 - clean toilets. order 65 - polish space boots. ah! here it is - order 66 - kill all Jedi. that seems easy enough...'anyway, just the idea that the 'kill all jedi' order had a number or a prearranged code, and not just 'kill all jedi'. the sith never seemed like bureaucratic sticklers to me.
also - my dad pointed out something to me, and perhaps some of you harder-core geeks can help: why is the Dark Side bad? i mean, seriously. you've got certain powers available to you with your plain old space cowboy-hero Force. then you've got the Dark Side, which brings with it the ability to do more cool stuff. we're given lots of hints as to it being Bad. but we're never introduced to a moral code which conflicts with the Dark Side. i mean, sure, people get killed by those who wield its power, but the noble Jedi kill people as well. sure, there's a search for power that the Dark Side thrives on, but the Jedi also sought and fought to preserve their positions of power as well. without introducing some moral code in this universe A Long Time Ago In A Galaxy Far Far Away, you just have people using different talents to different ends. i don't know, i thought it was an interesting perspective. any thoughts?
i think that on the dark side, those with jedi powers are at the top of the chain and they control everything, like a dictator. The other side though, i feel like the jedi, though they may be on top of the pile, and could if they wanted take control, they don't, they sit around contemplating the force and all that. The jedi do kill, but i can't recall them every killing someone because they failed in their mission or their duties. I could be wrong, i'm not even close to being into star wars like you guys, but i can't remember the jedi ever killling without being provoked. to relate it to another topic, i find it to be very dark side is to the jedi as nazi germany is to vichy france
but for that connection to mean Dark Side = bad, you have to have some sort of moral code established. i don't see where it comes from...
i think it's just taken as axiomatic that greed is bad, and that whatever moral code you can develop from a set that includes that one axiom will also ultimately include the idea that there are light and dark sides of the force, the distinction being whether or not exercising any given power would conflict with that axiom.
<ObiWan> Anakin, only the sith see in black and white!
<ObiWan> Senator Palpatine is EVIL!!!That said, I think one of the clearest definitions is ROTS 4:18-20 which says, "The sith think only of themselves and their own power, the Jedi think only of others."
Which is similar to what inkblot said about greed, but it's a little more "black and white," to cop Obi-Wan's phrase -- The sith are totally self-absorbed -- while the pure Jedi is completely selfless. There are Dark powers and Light powers, but they come through focusing on different sides of that division.
So along with "greedy/not greedy" I would add "selfish/selfless" as a difference between the light and dark sides.
but they haven't established why one is morally</a> good and one is morally bad.
but they haven't established why one is morally good and one is morally bad.
good conversation starter. I just saw the movie yesterday, and i was more impressed than i expected to be, but not overly so. I like how the closer it got towards the end, the more everything started looking cheesy, so that when you watch episode four right after, there's some concordance (?) with the way things look, like the controls on the consoles in the ships, stuff like that.
you're right baggins, the movies make no statement that i know of that puts down a line as to what is morally right and wrong. I assume that it's taking from the writer's own morality. I probably wouldn't be one to trust a group like the jedi, with their powers, to be all good, so maybe the sith are in the right.?.?.?
We think that murder is wrong because philosophically we believe it deprives people of their right to their independent lives. Our laws come out of this philosophy. Most religions have codes against murder, but we live in secular states -- either way, these are somewhat arbitrary beliefs if unless you take religion or that philosohpy to be binding.The Sith feel like nothing is more important than their own power; the Jedis feel like nothing is more important than peace and freedom and democracy. To that end, the Jedi's morals seem generally in line with our beliefs about murder... but the Jedi philosophy must obviously stem from some higher philosohpy that murder and chaos are bad. We just don't see that in the movie. Partly because, I would guess, most people appreciate peace, freedom, and democracy over despotism and a lack of liberty, which Sith government leads to, because they are ultimately concerned only for themselves.
Would you say that our own beliefs about selfishness/selflessness are similarly unfounded? Or are you saying you wanted the Jedi to directly appeal to a written philosophy? I guess I don't understand.
Statements like, "Only the Sith see in black and white" is just ridiculous. I'm just talking about how the Jedi feel justified in pursuing the "fruits" of the light side of the force and shun the dark side.
there were a few comments in this last one about things being "natural" like not using the force to keep people alive and/or to create life etc.
I saw Revenge Of The Sith for a second time.I still don't understand why the Wookies are even in the movie, other than to patronize fanboys, see also Boba and Jango Fett in Attack Of The Clones and the Tusken Raiders in The Phantom Menace.
Order 66 is still a polished turd, as far as being a story element. It almost pisses me off as much as pulling Qui Gon out of the hat at the ending. Dude, *if you're gonna kill someone with a gun in Act III, you have to establish the gun in the first scene of Act I.*
I think people let Lucas off the hook too easily with this one. He's a *bad storyteller. Good technology and a solid camera director can't ever change that. Lucas should not get any credit for tying up loose ends, because that is all this movie was supposed to do. Seeing as how he had three movies serving as a roadmap, he still screwed it (see also the changes to the Meditation Chamber in the Empire Strikes Back DVD.)
Meh.
btr
Dave
But I agree with you, Dave.Ole George needs a team of writers, while he sits and thinks and dreams up new visions--because his creative input visually is astonishing. I mean, who knew a idosyncratic syntax-challenged three foot tall Green Muppet could become a cultural icon---and largely on the strength of the things we IMAGINED him doing...
But his dialogue is awful. Are you that egotistical, George, that you can't let Carrie Fisher take a crack at it? She practically begged you for the job, and if anything, Postcards from the Edge proves she knows good writing....
And his plot is awful; he painted himself into a corner....Dave is right in quoting one of the long established rules of writing. I want to brain George with a copy of Stephen King's "On Writing" and sit by his hospital bed until he's read every word in it on how to write....
Yet because of the few moments of whoa! (said in the best Keanu style) we continue to pour riches into the fat flanneled one's pocket...
I had wanted to watch this one prior to seeing Sith, but it just now made it from Netflix. I guess a lot of other people had the same idea I did. All it did was remind me of the poorly written love scenes and the add more loose ends that weren't dealt with in Sith.question: the army of the replubic is the clone army and palpatine does his evil takeover and republic becomes empire and the clones become storm troopers. right? so how come the storm troopers are pathetically bad fighters?
somewhere in the mythology, in the later trilogy books written by Timothy Zahn, he explains the ineptitude of Imperial troops as the Emperor sort of Force-controlling them....I need to purge this knowledge. I can't remember what I read for class last Tuesday but I can pull this out of my tuckuss at a moment's notice?
Sigh
deep in my hidden pockets I also have a memory scrap of the Emperor's force control. The idea was that his prideful grip tightens on his galaxy, and all the troops work in better unison with his influence pushing itself on their tactical decisions. But what I think may also add to stormtrooper weakness is 1.) Jango Fett wasn't all that awesome a shot himself, unless he was shooting at your back, and 2.) further troops would be new clones....maybe the batches got watered down, weakened, or they went somewhere other than Camino for cheaper clones...but by episode 4 the troopers are weaker... 3.)they also do not have Jedi guiding them.
That they stopped using Jango Fett clones and eventually started recruiting from the galaxy using human recruits.
that's probably true...or else Lucas would have altered their voices in the DVD of episode 4 - 6 like he did Boba Fett's....always the voice of wisdom, Master Peterson
...Luke and Biggs talk about joining the academy -- is that only to be an officer? i figured that they would rise through the ranks of stormtroopers and eventually become officers. I guess they could still just command around stormtroopers. So in the Zahn books, they are still supposedly clones? I thought Lucas authorized those stories.While I'm on the subject of my great ideas, remind me to tell all y'all how Lucas REALLY should have made the movies.
Zahn doesn't say they are clones...He mentions that the Emperors will is what makes the Empire's military so cohesive and efficient. Somehow his influence flows through the officers and other decision making officials. When he dies the Rebels pick apart the Imperial forces.
And maybe this was a re-edit, but the Zahn books make a big deal out of the fact that clones tended to either have reduced lifespans or die violently due to the fact that their making/birth was anathema to the Force, that it was warping the Force, and that no one had yet found a way around this (hence the Clone Wars being so violent and so short). I also got the impression that the earlier cloners couldn't get around that problem and so they just stopped making clones, as well as the Republic destroying their facilities where they found them.'Cuz one of the central plot devices in the Zahn books is that of clones; the clone of the insane Jedi Master, and the cloning facility that the Emperor had hidden away in his secret Treasure Planet....
It's pretty much given that Zahn and Stackpole (who started the X-wing series) had seen, or was given, the Lucas "writer's bible" or a version of it in order to start the stories. So yet another example of Lucas changing his mind here...
It's General Grievous, yo!
james = super cool.
He can marry my daughter. Anna just drew a storm trooper and darth vader.
Chewbacca gropes Leia
knowing and caring nothing for any bit of star wars, i recognize that many around here might appreciate this.sorry for the long post. i would have just posted the link but it requires a password and all that junk.
BOSTON -- George Lucas has cleaned out his closets and Star Wars fans who visit the Museum of Science during next six months will be all the happier for that.
Everything from the gold-plated C-3P0 to Luke Skywalker's Landspeeder to Yoda are on display in the museum's "Star Wars: Where Science Meets Imagination" exhibition, which opens today.
Here you can take a Disney World-ish ride in a mockup of Han Solo's Millennium Falcon or attend a 15-minute show in a model of a Jawa Sandcrawler where C-3P0 introduces the audience to the latest robots currently in use.
At the adjoining Hayden Planetarium, a specially created show uses footage from the Star Wars films as it compares Lucas' strange other worlds with the odd planets and moons in our own solar system, then speculates on the possibility of finding similar worlds in other galaxies.
In the hands-on part of the exhibit, visitors can build a little car out of plastic and magnets that can "float" down a track or float all on their own as they ride on a cushion of air in a machine the size of a riding lawnmower. Alongside some exhibits are video screens showing continuous loops of the Star Wars engineers and designers discussing how the machinery was created, using scientific research to make them appear real.
Of course, lots of Star Wars fans would come just to see the original costumes and space vehicles used in the series' six movies, even though many of those space vehicles are only two feet tall and sit inert behind glass, far from the imposing behemoths that whoosh across giant movie screens.
The multi-legged Imperial Probe Droid that sets such a creepy tone at the start of The Empire Strikes Back as it flies across the icy landscape of a frozen planet in reel life, measures less than a yardstick in real life.
A Wookiee tree dwelling, 14 stories tall on screen, here is seen in a miniature prototype 18 inches tall.
Where else, after all, will you be able to be within touching distance from one of the batlike Imperial TIE Fighter vehicles sitting in a glass case? Or Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber? Or Princess Leia's white dress? Or Darth Vader's black-robed costume? Or even come face to face with the tall, furry Chewbacca . . . or at least his costume?
There's even a startling "naked" look at C-3P0. In addition to the robot's familiar gold-plated costume, a nearby model has his gold covering peeled away to reveal miles of multi-colored wires attached to a steel skeleton with gears and armatures.
Some will be surprised at the elaborate detail on some of the models used in the film. Others will be disappointed to see that many of them are made of thin hammered metal and look less solid than the plastic toy versions. One of Princess Padme's costumes looks like it was created from burlap.
A hands-on show All this stuff would be a big draw on its own, but then, this being the Museum of Science, the exhibition creators felt an obligation not only to entertain, but to educate. Thus the stated purpose of the exhibit: to show how Lucas's imaginary planets and machinery have parallels in the real world.
The hands-on part of the exhibit encourages visitors to take part in the show. Here they can build their own little robots out of plastic cannisters that look a bit like miniature R2-D2s, fitting them out with wheels or rubber tracks to make them move. Or they can find out how difficult it is in the real world to make a robot move on legs, like C-3P0. The object in this exhibit is to get a pair of mechanical leg "bones" to "walk" upright by manipulating a series of dials and buttons.
Nearby are Luke Skywalker's prosthetic hand and a demonstration of how robotics may be used to integrate technology into the human body.
One of the exhibits in this "Robots and People" section is on biohybrid limbs for amputees -- prosthetics that combine human tissue with synthetic materials. It's based on research being done at Brown University, a joint project of the Providence VA Medical Center, Brown and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
At the magnetic levitation exhibit, even some of the adult visitors at a recent exhibition preview dove right in, slapping color-coded magnets onto a six-inch-long plastic LEGO baseplate in hopes of creating a little car that would float down a three-foot-long track -- provided they'd assembled the car from two different colors of the magnets in the correct order, then pushed the proper buttons to send current through the three copper-wire coils to set up a magnetic field that would put the thing in motion.
Many lined up to "sit on a cushion of air" on a riding mower-sized Hovercraft that had a high-backed padded seat and a large fan at the base. Once everything was revved up -- and it revved up quite a few times before breaking down after about a half hour -- the rider could control the floating car's movement as it bumped around inside a 12-foot-diameter ring for a minute-long bumper car kind of ride.
Robot theater For entertainment's sake, however (and with a nod to education), a must-see is the "Robot Object Theater," a 15-minute show inside that large-scale model of a rusty Jawa Sandcrawler. C-3P0, who has been tossed inside along with other types of robots by the scavenger Jawas, just as he was in the first Star Wars film, is the host, along with Cynthia Breazeal, director of the Robotic Life Group at MIT, who is seen on a video screen.
She first introduces us -- and the fussbudget C-3P0 -- to some very basic robots -- Dirty, Dull and Dangerous -- who can each do only a single different task, but do it very well. Dirty, for instance, is used to inspect sewers. Dull welds automobile parts. Dangerous can be sent in to extinguish fires in tight spaces.
When C-3P0 disses the minor accomplishments of these rudimentary robots, as compared with his high-toned intellectual and spatial capabilities, Breazeal introduces us to more advanced creations. Some look like little dogs and play soccer. Another, with two video-camera eyes, can respond to humans once it detects motion in them. There's even a vaguely cow-like droid named Kismet with big blue eyes that can express emotion.
Also lots of fun, on the ground floor at the entrance to the second-floor exhibition hall, is the mockup of Han Solo's Millennium Falcon from the first Star Wars film. It's on the ground floor at the entrance to the second-floor exhibition hall and is an extra $5 admission for a timed ticket on top of the exhibition ticket price . . . but it also gets you a collectible pin, golly gee whiz.
Once squinched inside the Falcon, the seven visitors sit in the cockpit in front of a black screen as the voice of Anthony Daniels, who plays C-3P0, guides the "crew" to the edge of the universe. As Earth melts away, the ship blasts through hyperspace on a 4 1/2-minute voyage as images of Imperial Fighters and distant planets whiz by and one gets a sense of motion through images and sounds. Eventually we're taken to the edge of the known universe with its protozoa-like blobs of blue, red, yellow and green representing the remnants of the Big Bang. Bon voyage!
In the adjoining Hayden Planetarium is a companion show, Far, Far Away: The Worlds of Star Wars, which is another extra $9 ticket for adults; $7 for children.
Footage from the various strange worlds seen in all six of the Star Wars films is used to introduce us to the strange planets and moons of our own solar system. There's also a look back at our own Earth across the eons -- from its molten origins 4.5 billion years ago to the formation of its oceans to the beginnings of life.
Daniels, who seems to be everywhere at the Museum of Science, including as C-3P0 on the exhibition posters, narrates. It's a fascinating half-hour.
Star Wars: Where Science Meets Imagination is making Boston its first stop on a long tour. It will tour museums across the country through 2007, when it will head off to such farflung places as Japan and Australia.
The Museum of Science is at Science Park, Route 28, Boston.
Admission to the Star Wars exhibit is by timed ticket only. It's $20 for adults, $18 for seniors, $17 for children, $3 for museum members. The price also gets you a ticket for admission to the exhibit hall, usable within six months of seeing the Star Wars show.
A multimedia video handset with headphones offers an additional guide through the tour with commentary by the show's designers and Daniels. It rents for $5; $4 for members or ages 3 to 11 and 60-plus; free to those with hearing or visual impairments.
For more information or to reserve tickets, visit www.starwars.mos.org or phone (617) 723-2500.
What I really need is a droid that understands the binary language.... of love.
The original versions of 4, 5, and 6 are coming out on DVD Sept 12.
DangGeorge Lucas is a bigger pimp than Ol'Dirty Bastard ever was. I refuse to be a ho.
Who stole the soul?
btr
Dave
Well smack me round and call me Susan!
Seriously!I just watched Episode IV for the first time I saw Episode III. Here is what has me up in arms.
After Luke completes his trench run and fires his proton torpedoes into the exhaust port, his X-Wing is seen with Wedge's X-Wing alongside The Falcon as they make their escape, putting parsecs between themselves and the soon-to-be-blowed-up Death Star.
That's it for survivors.
Gold Squardon? Dead.
Porkins? Dead.
Childhood friend Biggs Darklighter? Dead.
And yet, when Luke lands and everyone is happy because the planet they are on is still in one piece and now they can have a sweet medal ceremony, pause is given to weep for the casualty that is R2-D2...
btr
Dave
PS: And while we're at it, fuck Luke, too!
watch this
Wedge Antilles survives! That's your reason for celebrating!
"what do you mean they blew up the death star??""what the hell is an aluminum falcon?"
The ultimate gift for all you classic Star Wars fans
You may not be able to tell from the website how cool the book actually is, but it is... seriously.
My Bday is in Jan in case anyone wants a challenge :) http://laughingsquid.com/millennium-falcon-birthday-cake-by-charm-city-cakes/
But I think it would have to be renamed the Millenium pile-of-mush.