also, if anyone else is interested in donating a piece of art or helping in any other way, please let me know.
here are the pictures i came armed with. s@r@h beckstr0m's beautiful baby:
(null)Created 4 Jun 2002 at 21:19 UTC by pedro.
URL: http://www.northpark.edu/Notes: The North Park Special -- a little entree for those North Parkers who want to hear any relevant news or announcements, that kind of stuff.
Hey dudes,McKenna is in town -- and we're going to be at the 'Wood tomorrow night, after 9:00 for a while... so come hang out with us!
Tell people like Wiberg who don't read this site, too -- spread the love.
wiberg and i and a bunch of people that none of you know go bowling on wednesday nights. i will probably be doing that tomorrow night, as well. tell McKenna i said hey.
So the whole discussion in the recentlog regarding North Park is fascinating. I know for some time now, they've been doing fundraising on the downlow for Phase 2, which is the new athletic facility that would take over the old gym as well as the patio at kedzie & foster. I haven't really kept up with the progress, but they began the fundraising for phase 2 before the library was completed. Probably to pay for stuff like plans and architects and what not. I didn't hear about a new football stadium but my guess is that it might be another large donation for the express purpose of building a new stadium, like the music building. Now, the new music building really irks me. They've got a perfectly nice music building and with a little remodeling it could be brand new again. Now go look at the science labs and classrooms in Carlson tower. Unless things have changed recently, they are still run down, old, and lacking space. So that's my gripe with a new music building that I see as frivolous and vain. Now--what was I rambling about. Oh nevermind.
Until someone donates a million dollars to renovate the existing labs, it probably won't happen... that's the problem with specific donations. :<
The music thing irks me too -- a lot of north parkers have spent their COLLEGE LIVES practicing in Hanson, and it kind of ticks me off to see that building being vacated (by musicians) because of some big donation.
It's not clear to me what would happen to Hanson.
I think it's wonderful that individuals have decided to give large sums of money to NPU. And a new music building is never a bad thing. I guess my gripe should focus on the new athletic facility, since that was a decision made by the higher ups and not an individual. I hope they keep Hanson, I love that choir room--it has great acoustics.
The problem though, is that even if I think that athletics is a really big fiscal draw on the institution (especially football, which has sucked and probably always will suck...), the fact is that a lot of students wouldn't come to NP if there weren't athletics at the school -- think of all the cool soccer, track, cross country, baseball, volleyball people you knew and love(d)... and to be perfectly honest, our athletics facilities suck! That whole section in the basement of Carlson is grimy and dirty and cramped. The exercise room is falling apart, and the weight room was brand new in 1967. Or earlier.A new football stadium is ridiculous, I think -- who is going to be sitting there? The rabid NP fans? Ha!
But another gym so that scheduling (for both NCAA and Intramurals) isn't such a big deal? A new exercise area? Remodeling and new equipment? Decent offices for coaches? Those are all things that NPU really honestly lacks, and for students who are intersted in athletics, that makes a big deal, especially when they look at other places and see how nice they have it. So I don't really see a new athletics facility as really being that big of a waste, personally.
When I consider the sorry shape of the current athletic facilities, you've got a good point.
dude, as lame as pouring millions of dollars into a new footbal stadium is, there are "good" reasons for it.the main one: a tiny school with a sub-par athletic program sporting a footbal stadium with the name of a super bowl winning coach on the door???
you know thats giving horner, balsam, and the whole board of directors one big collective boner.
i'm sure they'd gladly re-model hanson hall if they could put ozzy's name on it, but unfortunatly... he never went here.
although ive heard rumors that one of the drummers from DEVO did a semester here and was kicked out...
"dude, i'm late for gospel chior practice at 'drummer from devo hall' "
or, rather...none of those loveable osbourne kiddies ever went here.
I don't know if he was the drummer or not, but I think he was the founding member and veritable leader of the band. His parents are still covenanters. Eric Carlson's parents are friends of theirs. He visited their house when he was a kid, rode his bike and slept in his bed...I figure most of you don't really care, but coach Holmgren was one of the key ingredients in my compleetly rejecting christianity.
mark mothersbaugh is amazing.his work with devo and his work on bottle rocket/ rushmore/ royal tennebaums deserves a place in the hall of fame.
any idea what year(s) he may have attended NP so i can scour the yearbooks?
speaking of yearbooks, the next time anyone is in the (new, improved, costing me $1000 more a semester) NP library, you should check out the 1970 coupola yearbook. it is without a doubt on my list of top 10 favorite books ever published. a work of restrained genius, subtle beauty, and alltogether timelessness while perfectly capturing what it must have been like to attend NP right after the summer of love. (one example: ever seen a picture of an upside-down american flag flying on the flagpole in front of old main?)
interesting comment about holmgren and your rejecting christianity... care to elaborate?
ake, if you take a look at the aforementioned Covenant NFL Minor Deity's record during his Reign of Indifference with the Seattle (caution; may contain football-like substance) Seahawks, it's readily apparent that he has also convinced many athletes to give up athleticism . . .Re: the whole NPU situation. While I agree on the state of our athletic facilities, having exercised in that dungeon/weight room (actually, most of us who frequent the place REALLY like it, because none of the Stick Girls who can't carry a backpack to class but can run up and down stairs endlessly come in there) for roughly 4.5 years now, how is it that our demographic gets skewed towards athletes?
What percentage of the student body are actual school athletes? And if you factor in the Nursing program draw of this school, whose facilities ALSO need improvement, as do the labs--it's a miracle we haven't had a science project go badly wrong. And with all these star-caliber athletes coming in, are we yet again diluting the academics for name prestige? (Or still I should say)
At the same time, it must be incredibly difficult to get donors to donate specifically towards infrastructure that isn't readily tangible. A football stadium is tangible. Improving campus housing or buying apartment buildings and renovating them are less tangible, less sexy, but arguably more critical.
In a way, it's a colossal collegiate game of I have a bigger Sex Organ than you; my name is Ozymandias. Ye mighty, look on my works and despair.
Apologies to all with more than a passing interest in literature, especially those of you lurkers with the Official NP How-To-Read Degree like me, raskol, oldpossumus, especially now that he is Mastered . . .for butchering P.B. Shelley in this way.
Those are some of my thoughts. . .
From last week's Tuesday Morning Quaterback column, by Gregg Easterbrook:Running items departmentOuch! 72 to 0.
Obscure College Score of the Week: Millikin 72, North Park 0.
Located in Chicago, North Park is one of the nation's smallest universities, enrolling 2,600 but offering four master's degrees. (A college is four-year, a university confers advanced degrees.) An evangelical Christian school, North Park offers an unusual MBA program that is "ethics-based." Thus WorldCom, Enron, Adelphia, Arthur Andersen, Merrill Lynch, Citicorp, Xerox, AOL Time Warner, Global Crossing and others surely refuse to hire North Park MBAs.
I am so glad someone else I know with a fine brain reads that column.That's my every Tuesday after my 10:30 class ritual. Fire up the DSL, and read that before vanishing into the Library.
I shared his name for the Seahawks (the Seattle Blue Men Group) with Jeny H-C, and she loved it!
yeah bro, half of campus is getting dug UP.massive landscaping project that is "on schedule to be completed by graduation in may."
yeah.
anyway, most of spaulding between foster and the river will now be a walkway. you will still be able to turn off foster onto spaulding but i think it will quickly loop around to that alley behind olson.
they're finally turning the pile of dirt left after tearing down the old library into a grassy area, and the long-term goal is for that to be the "center of campus" instead of the hump.
IMHO, we should build a state-of-the-art training center/feild for the footbal team there. why let all that open space go to waste?
yeah right. training center for the football team. like it wouldn't still be a waste. they should build something else there. like a 12-foot vert pipe for all the skaters.
They should make it a roller-hockey rink, so all the bladers can kick ass there!! Yeah rock!!
they should build a big hill, and put crosses on top so that all the christians can crucify the heathens publicly
an area where gluttons could be beaten.BEAT THE GLUTTON.
They;ve been talking about tearing up spaulding since I was a sophmore. It was one of the reasons they moved the mailroom. It was fun to feel Caroline shaking as they tore up concrete. You guys really should start a pool as to when they'll cut your power.
to be in the basement of caroline feeling every chunk of concrete being broken up.
where was the mail room previous to ohlson house, i feel like there's only two of you that know...
John Mark! The Muck playing postmaster! I wonder where he is now.
The post office used to be in the basement of caroline, but it was just a window. Student mailboxes were in the lobbies of the dorms.
Whil karna was stranded in PA last weekend her uncle roger toko her on a tour of messiah colelge where is a professor. They have about 2,000 nudergrad but apparently their facilities are SUPER nice. PLus tehy have a creek that runs through the campus on which you can tube and fly fish. They had a science building!North park is of coruse limited because land in the city costs a boatload but I think they've done a poor job in the past deciding what to build and what not to build as well as attracting donations from non-alumni to the general fund. I think the new library is a great start and I don't know what I would do next, but it probably wouldn't be a new fieldhouse.
Anyway, just thought I would move the NPU dicussion into the proper entree.
I'm so proud of my north park education and the writing skills I learned there!
...that I stopped carying about typos in venues like this unless I really want to get my point across.
I just had to say something because I noticed so many, I know I make a ton too, but for some reason I thought it funny. oh and I just have to say again on this entree how much I now want a chicken delight sandwich after lukas said something about it.Lukas want me to buy one and fedex overnight it to you?
eklund science and research facility
But by the time you finish greasing palms in Chicago for the building permits, and the Swedish Mafia, and the Covenant extortion (I mean)uh, the Covenant takes its cut, you'll have enough for a series of pup tents in the new green space.I love the green space. Every dog owner in the Kimball-Bryn Mawr-Kedzie-Argyle square block now has a place to walk their dog without fear of carrying a plastic bag. Especially that guy with the gigantic male Rottweiler whom Campus Security finally gave a ticket to for leaving piles that had the Biology department mulling the existence of African herd animals on the campus . . .
Add to that the obvious skater thrash value and I'm sure that we got our money's worth!
And to rate a pint (it's not a typo..I really need a beer but I already had two mojitos tonight and I'm cutting back on drinking, really) NPU has done a terrible job of relating to its' alumni from 1990 on. I mean, come on, how many people that you interacted with are on the Decalums? (I could go on about how the Decalums is a dying gasp of popularity theory; the voting theory that rules proms, and homecomings, but I won't.)
God forbid that NP hears that my great-aunt just provided her godson with a whole lot of equity . . . .
moony told me that there are 8 guys living in java house this year. i don't know what to think... no java house...make kids live down there? what the hell. how do you check people for those guys visiters? i just don't get it. pedro do you have any facts on this?
Half of Burgh Hall 2nd is women... tell me how THAT's going to work. And there are a few guys living in Java Haus at the moment.There are always a bunch of people who do not show up for school, or who quit after two weeks. The Java Haus people will not be staying where they are for long. But NPU really needs a new dorm.
"Here'a a cup of coffee, a nutty bar, and a cot, enjoy your stay at North Park"ANd a coed floor in Burgh? damn I wish I was back in school again!
I'm sure there are some parents out there having strokes right now as we speak.
they made Burgh 1st floor female and what a scandal that was--I can't imagine the reactions to a co-ed floor without the holy red-sea lobby of separation and desk attendant on vigilant watch to keep the sexes apart. I'm sure some parents are majorly freaking out.They should just tear Anderson Hall down and build a new, huge female dorm which is actually livable in its place. They have all that space over there.
they could build a 6 story dorm with all new amenities, and it would hold WAY more people, and not need any more space, only several millions of dollars.
I remember the last housing crunch from a few years ago when they started frantically buying apartments in the neighborhood. There was serious talk about building a new dorm and having it ready for the next fall class. I guess that plan fell through.
The dorm plan seems to be back off the shelf for the time being. Not sure of the details though. NP makes very little (if any) revenue off the apts. Whereas the dorms have a wider margin. The costs associated with running the apts are prohibitive. Plus, if you got a donor to finance the dorm, the margin gets even wider.
The main hitch as I understand it is a.) the donor thing, which is the only way the campus can get major capital improvements and b.) the cost of a building permit for a multi-story residential building in Chicago, even a two-story one.The whole reason the Skate Park and Dog Play Yard . . .I mean the green space...took so long was the multitude of varying permits required from all the city and corporate agencies involved.
Particularly because we were "taking back" the alley, all the utility companies had to do their thing and sign off on it, and bury the utilities, etc. Big, big hassle.
If we held true to form, the new dorm would be designed like Swedish architecture a la the Ikea Book Warehouse, I mean, the library, and it would loom over campus much like Schaumburg Ikea does from I-90, but also in the same way, no one would be able to get to it . . .
on if it were a chicks dorm or if it were a guys dorm. cause if it were a virgin vault then that would make sense, but were it a cockpit, well, it would be a single story edifice made from old refrigerator boxes with poor water preassure and leaking toilet water from the ceilings.
I wonder if the co-ed floors need an experienced RA? To my knowledge, I have been the only male RA for an all female floor. I believe cinnamongirl was one of my residents, perhaps she should could give me a good reference.Of course, I'd demand a private shower this time. All that crossover trafic was irritating!
captain, i don't remember your being my RA, but anything is possible. i'm happy to put in a recommendation for your "dream job" regardless.i did, however, live in burgh and function as an RA myself in the summer of '99. me, ariel, scinat, arthur. those were the days. the days before north park was a sinful place allowing different sexes to live in the same dorm!
except in the summer time when everyone (regardless of sex) was in the same dorm....
...I was only a summer RA(97/98) and phantom RD(98) while the real RD travelled for most of the summer.
There was cohabitation before I got there (i.e., despite my fallen nature, I did not bring about the fall of Burgh). I was formerly a proud and dignified resident of Ohlson House. Anything's better than living in Java Haus. There but for the grace of God...
good luck trying to enforce visitation now. Geez. I'd hate to be an RA at Burgh right about now.speaking of dorms, this is hilarious...
my roommate Adam told me this story, but preceded it with, "Man, they have some serious goons sitting desk these days." I'm like, "what happened?" And he tells me.
He picks up the phone to call Sohlberg, and he gets:
"Hello... ?"
not, "Sohlberg Front Desk, can I help you..." or even "Sohlberg!" ... just a hello.
So he's all "Hey, can you transfer me to <such-and-such>'s room?" And they guy's like,
"Sure... what's the number?"
* * *
yikes.
Mallory, we needja!
Jelan!, that's really funny story.
It's one half of first (locked door) and all of second (locked doors). So it's co-ed, but not really. I wonder if they put security alarms on those back stairwell internal doors then... eh? winkitty wink!
knowing npu, i'd speculate that sauwndra hensle would have to check you in herself for anyone to gain access.
Is sauwndra the new mallory?
she the director of residence life, so maybe.
that's not how she speels her name, but i already know that she has practiced badmouthing me to more recent ras so i don't want it to look like i'm talking crap about her, even though i kinda am
You make one wise ass remark about dorms towering over campus, and lo and behold, there's a 200 foot high steel-type crane towering over the campus as we build the Mike Holmgren War Memorial Stadium, soon to be in the record books as first stadium whose cost in dollar bills equals number of years it took to record same number of football wins.But you can't fault Mike for sending some of that sweet Seattle Blue Man Group fundage this way. God knows he's paid enough in tuition! And to point out, also like that other stadium nearing completion in the City that Daley Built--don't make no waves, don't back no losers--, that this one actually looks nice and fits well with the rest of campus, rather than the Great Blue Death Star grinding a classic Grecian memorial to war dead underfoot.
but i REALLY like the new dean of students at NPU. she is a very good woman. and cool on top of it.i am having lunch with a former theology prof of mine. i'm looking forward to it. and also looking forward to tre kronor. i'm starving.
a friend and fellow north park employee just told me she's expecting. i'd give the name but not sure if it's "public" yet. i love hearing good news!
I'm also a woman. Surprise!
so now it's public that you're a woman as well as pregnant?
... alh?
talk about an open relationship! You two aren't even sure if you are gay or not!
the North Park message board, it's very uneasy right now at all this gender-bending. Please return to your normal Scandinavian defined bland gender roles . . .
where's the atheltic complex going to be?also, nice new website at npu, although the overuse of flash was annoying in elinks. but it's fun to see it grow even though I wish I was still the dude in charge of it. But I have to let go...
It's going on the Southwest corner of Kedzie and Carmen where the plumbing supply place was.
NPU athletics taking the pipe jokes here!
North Park men's soccer lost in the playoffs to Augustana last night in overtime shootout 4-3. I'm sure most don't really have a feeling about this, but my brother's on the team and missed his chance to be the hero. I'm sure he has the "if I had made it, we could have won"-type feelings, but I hope he's doing ok. Even still, he must be all torn up about it.
north park needs to come up with some long held rules to get rid of. wheaton just reaped in A TON of free publicity, but maybe that's part of the reason they ended the ban...
North Park should BAN DANCING! Insert your own creative headlines...
that'd be a hoot.maybe they should have rooms on campus where students can burn candles.
or something.
fire codes (once a RA...)
fun is rigourously excisedyep, fire codes.
just joking.tonight was the Wheaton booty-shake-a-thon.
i bet it wasn't called that though...
NP SuitI'm very, very curious to see how this goes down...
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/120203_ns_gayteacher.html
damn gay people always trying to work where I am.North Park could be in some serious doodoo from that one. But it is true that it is in their hiring procedures, so who knows who will win.
"This is a case where a local institution in the city of Chicago has made a deliberate choice to discriminate based upon by sexual orientation, in terms of not hiring Ms. Kelly," said Jennifer Soule, Kelly's lawyer."could be a misquote, but she sure isn't very eloquent. (not that that has any bearing on the case)
in my opinion, however, a Private Religious Educational Institution should be able to discriminate based on their religious doctrine. If it were UIC or Kmart, it would be a different story. If she wins, does that mean that NPU would have to hire a qualified praticing member of the Church of Satan to teach Biblical Studies? it is a stretch of course, but the analogy holds.
...depending on the conversations the people had together, NPU probably has the right to make those choices, but the Big Scary Danger is that NPU could lose federal funding for things like financial aid, etc. Stay tuned.
It seems to me that there's something amiss when NP will hire anyone for a part-time position, but spring faith/lifestyle requirements on full-time faculty. This comes across as not only inconsistent but illogical.I think the only shot NP has at beating this one is if they have something signed by Dr. Kelly, indicating that she understands the university's policy: full-time teachers must be committed Christians in "faith and action," AND something indicating that their definition of Christian "action" excludes gay & lesbian relationships. Basically, they're going to have to prove that she took the part-time position with the knowledge that she would never get full-time work because of her orientation. From the article I read, it sounds like it was a big surprise to her.
In the end - after the backlash that can be expected - I think this could be a really good thing for North Park. They may be forced to examine policies & come to a "real" position: (a) we don't hire homosexuals at all, or (b) we do not take orientation into account in our hiring practices. In 20/20 hindsight, I'm surprised that this full-time/part-time thing hasn't been called into question before.
"It seems to me that there's something amiss when NP will hire anyone for a part-time position, but spring faith/lifestyle requirements on full-time faculty. This comes across as not only inconsistent but illogical."i agree with you Warggle. if she knew about it, then she doesn't have much of a case it would seem. however, if it is not a policy readily available, especially to part timers, then she might just have something. i mean, NPU, as much as we love/hate it, really would be pretty shady if they just sorta sprung this on her without any notice...
either way, it is something that will definitely push their hiring practices under much scrutiny.
they are "lax" about part-timers (and even some full-time staff) because they don't wish to be exclusivist or judgemental, but that in hiring tenure-track professors they feel that they have to represent the church and their constituents in order to remain consistent and to maintain the intregrity of what the school teaches students.I'm not saying that it isn't a little (to a lot) hypocritical, but I think it has at least some to do with a desire to be open, as well as a desire to hire qualified individuals.
it will be interesting to see.
i've never felt so embarrassed to be linked to north park university or any other institution in any way.
what exactly happened? The article seems to have been pulled.
my wife sent some application type stuff in over the internet and there is somehting you have to sign saying you are a Christian in faith and practice, I've seen it.
the notion that a homosexual cannot be a christian is ridiculous.
I don't think the issue is that the school believes that you can't be a christian and a homosexual, but that it is not the christian lifestyle that the school and it's sponsoring denomination upholds. i'm not saying you should agree with the policy -- or that definition of a christian lifestyle for that matter -- but I do not believe the school is trying to say you can't be a christian and a homosexual. That would be ridiculous.
but the official stance of the Covenant Church is that homosexuality is a sin, and that goes against her practices, making her not practicing their definition of Christian lifestyle.
You have to make a faith statement, and at the bottom of the application, you are directed to read the Covenant's position papers on all those equal opportunity positions before you sign. If you sign the application, it indicates understanding and that you have availed yourself of the information provided.Plus, there's a statement that NPU reserves the right, as a private instituition, to hire on the basis of religious creed.
You have to sign that and indicate understanding before any sort of hiring interview takes place.
Where the university might be lax is in not making their position crystal clear once Dr. Kelly's orientation came up. Still, she signed the application.
She was (not) hired because her lifestyle choices do not agree with the position of the Covenant church and North Park as an instuition.
I don't think Dr. Kelly's going to win her case--and it's a local case, in civil Illinois court. For NPU to lose federal funding--which by the way, in the case of financial aid pedro is individually awarded to the student, not to the school, and thereby has to be stripped from the student by various means of criteria--the case has to go to federal district court. And with this current administration having so many supporters from the evangelical wing of the Christian church, I don't see any pressure for U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald to look at this.
Bottom line is; she signed the statement, indicating understanding. It's pretty clear that she a.) didn't do the research--a telling statement for a university professor and someone with a doctorate--and look at the Covenant's statements, which anyone with a modem can find, or b.) she did the research and knowingly hoped to be hired, despite all the evidence pointing not in her favor.
I'll be very surprised if she wins.
that NPU and the Covenant still hold so tightly to this issue.I realize that Private Religious Institutions should be able to govern themselves according to their established doctrine, and that's necessary for a lot of reasons, and I'm grateful for the education and experiences I had at North Park, and the spiritual growth I got inside and outside the classroom.
...but...
i didn't fully realize until I left NP how completely sheltered I'd become. Whether you agree with it or not, there are a lot of social and spiritual issues we will all have to define for ourselves, and it's much harder when you're only given one side of an issue. Between gay students I knew that left NP, or adjunct faculty that couldn't get tenure due to being agnostic or (wait for it) Jewish, my frustration with NP turned into exasperation, and borderline anger.
I don't disagree with every policy NP or the ECC make, but I do disagree that the other side of the argument gets "written off". We graduate from that school and are thrust into a world that does not end up fitting with the spiritual and social "norms" that one finds at Foster and Kedzie.
Again, I'm not suggesting that the ECC open the flood gates per se, but it really, REALLY, would not hurt the mission (or the students) of the school to be taught by someone who has a radically different view than they do. We all (students and staff alike) know what we signed up for when we got there, but what I'm afraid will end up happening is people getting a homogonized view of what the world is like (or should be), and end up marginalizing a lot of people.
Over the last 3-4 presidential administrations, we've seen what happens when our country tries to impose its world-view on others, and what happens when we write people off as "fanatic" or "wrong" when they disagree. We should be so lucky as to learn this lesson.
There are Conservative Xn colleges that do not allow opposite-sex dating at all (which you know up front and sign off on). How does that prepare those people for Life In The World?
</rant>
... is really interesting to someone who didn't go to North Park and isn't familiar with the tenants of the Covenant Church. I've got friends who are homosexual and belong to various churches, who have even been 'married' by the church (union ceremonies). It's fascinating to me to see what the various demoninations believe. I've been to a Covenant church a couple of times with a friend of mine, when I was about what, 14 or 15? But I never got a feel for what the tenants were.
This discussion makes it seem like the ECC is crusading against homosexuals or that the denomination's statement on homosexuality is a central part of it's doctrine or something, which I don't think is the case at all. It's just that when the school had to take a stand, they chose a more conservative route, and the ECC has relatively "traditional" views on sexual morality, although I don't think the church is hostile to opposing opinion or homosexuals in the way that Christianity is often characterized.North Park is actually pretty unique for a Christian school for how un-sheltered it is -- although I will agree it's still pretty darned sheltered. You, the viewer at home, has to decide if that is all good or bad or somewhere in between.
This scenario probably would never have even come to pass at more conservative schools like Wheaton.
Dex, there is a crazy amount of diversity between Covenant churches, because there is very little specific doctrine that a local congregation has to "agree with" in order to be a Covenant church. For example, most Covenant churches in Chicago are much more like Lutheran churches are up at home, whereas the Covenant churches at home tend to be more conservative. MC in P0plar could practically be a Baptist church -- I say that without intending irony or criticism because I think it's a great church -- but it's true. Anyway, my point is that any one, or even any 5 Covenant churches don't really represent the fabric of the denomination as a whole, because individual congregations are largely responsible for the teaching that occurs there. Most of the people at North Park Cov. would not feel at home at MC and vice versa. Just FYI.
I suppose it is a sheltered environment, but I will state for the record that I became a more liberal thinker at North Park, largely due to encouragement from the "christian" faculty. I don't think that I was taught only one side of any issue. But, I am willing to concede that other students may have had more oppressive experiences.
I don't really feel like I was that sheltered at North Park, though I definitely did grow up in a sheltered environment before coming here. Maybe that's why I feel like I do, or maybe my experience was different because the majority of my classes were business subjects, or because most of the friends I made were from Chicago (some attended North Park, but I didn't have many on-campus friends), and I suppose I did bend a couple of the more shelteresque rules on more than a few occasions. Probably it was a combination of those things. Either way, I didn't feel that sheltered.What did I miss out on at North Park that I would/could have done if I picked a less sheltered option like a state school?
Beginneth The Rant:
A university's goal is not to imbue in its students a keen sense of societal norms. Were that the case, we could all have saved a lot of money by staying at home and watching TV 24/7. Hell, with cable and a TiVo you could probably get that kind of education in a month. I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't go to college to be programmed with the "correct" viewpoints to hold in modern society.
I think that North Park gave me a pretty good framework with which to make decisions about society for myself, and like blvdgirl I believe I became a more liberal thinker there. During my time as a student I learned a lot about the type of person I am, and managed to develop what I think is a fairly comprehensive and defensible collection of ideas, views, and beliefs about societal issues. However, very little of that process occurred in a classroom setting, though classes certainly taught me some skills that have helped along the way. Some of my views jive with those of the University, but some do not. Likewise, some of my views jive with the norms of society, but I'm guessing the majority do not. Does that mean I should defer to society? This society?
I guess I just don't see North Park as a factory that pumps out young Christians with homogenous world-views who marginalize others. Which is not to say that marginalization shouldn't have its place in our society, indeed it should. Personally, I think views such as anti-Semitism, racism, and bigotry, to name just a few, deserve to be belittled and cast from the mainstream. But that's just me.
Here endeth The Rant.
I do think that the Administration is the most conservative component of the school.
I am going to put myself before the firing squad here, I am glad that tenure-track profs had to sign a statement of faith. It made me proud that NP decided not to be lukewarm in the face of the man.
Now, does this mean that I think that that poor woman should have had a job taken away from her because of her sexual orientation? No. BUT, I don't feel that I have enough details about the case to say whether NP was right or wrong. After all, all I've seen is a little blurb meant to be inflammatory, and in the eyes of the "wronged" things are always hugely unfair.
is the Bob Jones University case from a few years back (J-Dogg, P-Diddy, Lek-Lund, someone willing to post a link . . .help a poor grad student with finals in the morning out here.) is a point in the plaintiff's case's favor.I don't know however if Bob Jones was backed by a doctrinal statement of the church involved there.
Geneva College in PA also requires its tenure-track faculty to sign statements much like the NP one, and I'm fairly sure Wheaton does as well. Augustana, being Missouri Synod--or is it Concordia?--anyway, I guarantee you they do, and that there are no women among their Bible faculty, whether grad or undergrad.
So NP isn't alone.
The Covenant is still volatile over the 1976 resolution to ordain women--the seminary is deeply divided over the issue.
Let this be a lesson to us all; never sign something or take a job unless you are satisfied you have a clear understanding of what you're entering into.
Just for the record. I also agree with the denomination's position.
I think this is an overdue topic for North Park and the ECC to be addressing publicly. For as much as they may have a "position" on homosexuality (and please see Pedro's posts for a reminder on just how diverse the church body is), they have no official policy regarding homosexuality in the Christian community. A resolution passed at an annual meeting in 1996 has no legislative power - it can not be considered doctrine or policy. And it's also interesting to learn how some of these resolutions are passed, and by whom, and in what fashion. A resolution (with a statement like "homosexuality is a sin" tucked into its belly) does not reflect an issue that the ECC and its individual churches have discussed, or debated, or wrestled with, and voted on. A vast majority of people in the church did not know about the resolution until it had already been voted on and passed. What does this say about the statement's relevance to the church body as whole? It says we, like everything else, are divided.And while the resolution caused quite a storm among church members (many of whom, as Covenanters and homosexuals, were terribly hurt by the Church's sudden "position" that seemingly excluded them from the body of true faith - there's a great messege) and there was quite a bit of public response to the statement, I think the church has prefered to let it rest and not deal with the issue proactively. And now they're in a reactive situation because they have never been up front and definite in regard to their position on homosexuality. Sure there's a resolution in an annual meeting report from seven years ago, but who is aware of that? Not the person teaching part time. And most likely, not the person applying for a full time position with an application that does not mention homosexuality.
I guess my initial point was to stress that the church has no offical doctrine or policy regarding homosexuality - instead, it has a resolution which has acted more like a clandestine opinion that people aren't that happy to discuss (in any of Horner's interviews, did you see him mention the statement regarding homosexuality, or just the part leading up to it? Maybe I missed it). Unfortunately, I think North Park can hardly be surprised to find themselves in this position when they and their sponsoring denomination have not worked together to confront this issue proactively. And they probably deserve to be in this position as well, and I say that as nicely as possible and for the future good of the denomination and the school and especially the people who call them home, even for a little while.
for in that wavering stance, what ill may occur?oldpossumus has graced us with an appearance after so many months of naught. and i'm thankful for his insight into the nature of the resolution that the ECC has and is now in question.
i don't really know what else to say, except that the church needs to decide.
all I know is that my sister had a fairly rough time finding a job. it seems no one wants a single woman to be an associate or "gasp" a senior pastor.
But most of us, unlike His Gollumness, don't get the advantage of debating this point with their father, the denomination in question's official historian . . .They have to go to their pastor, or their friend in seminary, or . . .someone in a learned position.
I'm not surprised that L's sister, who is one of the smartest people I know who's managed to combine intelligence with remarkable common sense (and she's a damned good writer/poet as well), had a hard time.
I would guesstimate that 75% of the M.Div candidates are men.
Fatherpossumus is a helpful resource in such issues Covenant.
for legalities sake - the opinions are mine and not fatherpossumus'. So no posting a printout to his door with a flaming axe or anything.
it will be very interesting to see how the ECC will address the issue (not just the current NPU debacle, but human sexuality in general) as it continues to become a more prominent topic of public and church debate.The diverse body represented in the congregations is also represented, in one way or another, in the seminary and at hq... and I think that if the denomination affirmed homosexuality there would be (to varying degrees) a lot of attrition of congregations and individual members/attenders. That fact can't escape the higher-ups. Not that you do or don't do the right thing for the sake of numbers -- but it would be real ugly.
finding senior pastor roles in very denomination, but they are also increasing their numbers in seminary and especially their power in the Catholic church is growing because the priesthood is shrinking so rapidly. I think the time is ripe for some serious switches in church power, and women are beginning to get more and more of it. Homosexuality on the other hand is so hot a topic that it is still a great unknown. Meagan is taking an American religion class right now, and they addressed how more and more social pressure is being put on the churches to accept homosexuality. Whether it's right or not I won't say, but this is rapidly becoming a culture of "don't step on other people's toes" and I think that has a lot to do with it all. In an effort to not make people mad, and not get sued, lots of organizations are letting their moral guidlines slip. I am not one to set anyone's definition of morality, but I think you should stick to what you beleive in, and people should get over it if they don't like it.
it makes no sense to assume that erik's opinions are actually his father's. no one does that with your opinions.i appreciated erik's comments and thought they were wise and well-thought out.
not trying to cause a stir- it just seemed like an unfair assumption.
I for one didn't think that lieutenant's statement assumed or intimated that oldpossumus was expressing fatherpossumus' opinion. lieutenant just said that most of us don't have the luxury of having a resource like f.p. to discuss the matter or gain inside insight with, which is true.
Pedro is right. That's what I meant.Fatherpossumus, for the record, enjoys having me as a resource with which to discuss what's going on in Iraq.
(Besides, I only post printouts with flaming medieval weapons after his finals . . .and I haven't had him this semester, which may explain poorer grades.)
It seems to me that the Covenant is fearful of schism, having been born that way, and so it's much easier to take a stance only near the first steps (i.e. the homosexuality resolution or the fact that we ordain women--now go and discuss amongst yourselves. Just don't leave the church over this.).
Also, one of our guiding and founding principles has been the idea of "Where is it written?" There's a clear Scriptural basis for homosexuality being a sin, and there's also a clearly identifiable argument for ordaining women. Beyond that, and I'm thinking specifically of the homosexual argument, there isn't a clear place where it is written that individuals of a homosexual nature can't be members of a church and so on . . .
is that what happens when Average Sven or Svenna the Covenanter goes to her pastor, and asks that pastor what he or she thinks vis a vis this issue?and the answer that comes out is . . .
a.) not consistent with the denomination's position (this happens most often with the ordination of women. I can think of two Covenant churches less than 10 miles from my seat that won't let women in their pulpit . . .)
b.) toes the party line and does not engage the parishioner in any sort of critical thinking on the topic . .
c.) condemns the sinner as well as the sin . .
or, option j, k, l, ad nauseaum . . .
Do you see here? Now, this is also a pattern for normal discussion within any sort of sociocultural group. But the chief danger here to me is ignorance amid cultural gaps in generations--for example, pastors and scholars of Sir Philip's generation, who are doing the majority of education for my generation and others below that, have had to adjust the thinking that they were taught by their elder generations. Some have not, and will not, and teach hatred and intolerance.
We have an advantage, oldpossumus and I by virtue of birth and career position right now,Pedro because of where he works, but I don't count us as average in that chiefly, we make our own minds up, and are willing to ask questions.
I think the 'fearful of schism' is absolutely correct - look at the Episcopal church recently for a perfect example. Which also happened, I'm sure, when the Episcopal church went out on a limb in the seventies (I think?) and became (I think, again) the first major denomination to allow women behind the pulpit.(if my facts are wrong there correct me. fatherpossumus is asleep and unavailable.)
The point being, schism will occur over these issues. In the same way that silent schisms occur over these same issues when they aren't dealt with openly. Which the covenant church has been experiencing, and for the most part quietly (i.e., Swedishly) for many years now.
What the percentage of Episcopal congregations that have actually left the E. church are. People do tend to bluster more than they act. That said, I think the ECC would lose more congregations, percentagewise, than the E. church as they are in general more liberal to begin with. As with the ordination issue, you'd definitely have congregations which chose to stay but woule outright deny the truthfulness of the resolution (especially if the ECC affirmed homosexuality. My guess is that congregations are not as united that homosexuality is righteous, even if they are more affirming of it.)What are the scriptural agruments that homosexuality is righteous? (I use the word "righteous" because "OK" sounds so... blase. And certainly we think that heterosexual matrimony is holy and righteous.)
A couple years ago I read the book "What The Bible Really Says About Homosexuality" by Daniel A. Helminiak. I remember it being quite interesting & doing a decent job answering that question, Pedro. Of course, since it's been a while I don't remember specifics, but I'd be happy to take a look tonight.
Most of the anti-homosexuality sections are in Leviticus, which compromises some 620 laws, none of which Christians today follow because Jesus said they were making the religion too complex, it should all be based on faith and good works, not following a crazy list of laws. The only New Testament sections that talk about it are from Paul, Jesus himself is never quoted as saying anything about homosexuality. In fact many people would argue that Jesus was very tolerant and embraced the sinners and women (note I link them together because women are evil, just kidding). So, one would be lead to believe that Jesus would not be against homosexuality, or women being pastors. However, Paul was openly mysogenistic (sp?) and against homosexuality, no they aren't tied, but I think one can easily lead to the other. So, since we eat shellfish and women don't spend their menstual cycle at the temple cleansing themselves, that rules out Leviticus. The question then lies in whether the teachings of Paul make up church doctrine. Some say yes, some say we are working off of Jesus' model and not Paul's, Jesus was the perfect son of God, Paul was just a normal old human. But a lot of what Paul taught is relevant to all of Christianity, I guess it depends on whether you say because we use some of Paul's teachings we should use them all, or acknowledge that Paul was a human living 2000 years ago and maybe the religion and society have evolved since then.
Is that since we are not under the law anymore, does that mean that the law was merely arbitrary? Was homosexuality condemned (to death) just to give heterosexual law-abiding Hebrews something not to be (or a rule to follow) at the expense of homosexual Hebrews? Or is there a sense to why God made the law what he did, even though we are not obligated to obey it?I'd also like to say thank you, overall to everyone for being relatively civil through this discussion... an issue like this is incredibly difficult to have decent, useful discourse on, and I for one am really impressed that things haven't degraded here, even though I know that our community probably falls at practically every point on the spectrum.
Let's try to keep it that way.
Okay. So there are 613 commandments in Leviticus, and many of them have to do with continuation of the species. For example, the laws of kashrut. Pigs and shellfish are common venues for food borne pathogens, and were common venues for poison as well. So the law prohibiting eating those things could have been, whether created by God or Man, just to keep the Hebrews healthy and growing. Similarly, the laws prohibiting homosexuality could have been another way to ensure continuation of the species - no sex = no children. And sexual promiscuity also leads to problems with continuation of the species in a culture that has sexually transmitted diseases, hence no sexual promiscuity.
Just my opinion. And I agree with you Pedro - this is a good discussion and has avoided being acrimonious. It's wonderful that this is a group of people who can discuss things like this!
This statement made my my buddy BigJ is not entirely correct, "Most of the anti-homosexuality sections are in Leviticus, which compromises some 620 laws, none of which Christians today follow because Jesus said they were making the religion too complex, it should all be based on faith and good works, not following a crazy list of laws." If fact, Christ says that he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill the law. The Law as dex mentioned may have been concerned with the continuation/preservation of the species, but Jesus still upheld it as the way of holiness. Jesus followed the Law. But, he knew that no one else would be able to follow it perfectly; hence, when he says he is the fulfillment of the Law, he is referring to his willing sacrifice- the blood payment that our own inability to fulfill the Law requires... That said, what do I think the Church's stance on homosexuality should be? Beats me... I think, though, that I would rather err on the side of compassion and love than to err on the side of fear and hate.
i agree that we should err on the side of compassion and love than the side of fear and hate. however, when faced with an empty staff position, is a University obligated to allow someone living what may be considered a willfully committed sinful lifestyle to assume a position of authority and influence?obviously, the larger questions remain 'What is the Church's stance on this issue?' and 'What are the implications of this stance?'. but NPU has a bit more on it's side in the legal case, it seems.
I think it's interesting that not only things we tend to be softer on these days (sexual morality/modesty) but also things we still and sometimes fervently affirm as sin are overlooked easily because of how culture and times change, and how ingrown issues become normative.Take for example materialism, or lack of compassion in today's church. As any community (not just a church) begins to overlook issues, whether out of compassion or convenience, those issues become normative as that community begins to get used to living with something that before was offensive, even if the issue is still recognized as problematic (or carries negative repercussions with it).
Divorce is a good example of that in the Christian church today; most people still recognize it as problematic or sinful (though there are myriad understandings of exceptions or exactly what it means theologically), but it seems to me that many churches are finding that out of a desire for compassion they cease to speak much about it.
That the church as a whole listens more to the doctrines of Paul because they are dogmatic and for the most part based on a systematic/logic argument, therefore they're easier to explicate into custom and behavior systematically.It's easier to make a custom out of "Greet the brothers and sisters with a holy kiss" than "Be like the lilies in the field for I tell you" etc . . .
I went through that little book yesterday and this morning, and tried to put these ideas as succinctly as possible... some of this is quotes, some is my attempt at paraphrasing. It's been a while since college, so if it's unclear, please forgive me, and if you disagree, please don't shoot the messenger.The general position of WTBRSAH is that the same-sex acts that were the focus of Biblical concern are not what we mean by "homosexuality" today (13). The Bible is basically indifferent to homosexuality in itself; as with heterosexuality, it is concerned only when practices violate other moral requirements (13). The Bible supplies no real basis for the condemnation of homosexuality (14). And from the Bible's positive teaching about heterosexuality, there follows no valid conclusion whatsoever about homosexuality (107).
God creates us & forms us as we are, so God must be behind the fact that some people are homosexual (19). If gays/lesbians are inherently flawed, then God would be evil or playing a trick. Since this cannot be, the mistake must be in how the Bible is being read (20).
There are two approaches to interpreting the Bible: literal and historical-critical (25). Both methods agree that the Bible is God's word and it is without error; however, the two approaches explain inspiration & inerrancy differently (27). The literal approach takes the text simply for what it says. It claims not to be interpreting the text, merely reading it as it stands. This approach relies on miracles (God's power overwhelmed the human authors & the words flowed from them). The historical-critical approach holds that a text means what it meant to the people who wrote it (25); this involves understanding the original situation & applying it to the present situation (26). It also contends that the writers were aware of what they were writing & God used their creativity/culture to express His wisdom in human form (28). This book will mean little to nothing to those who cling to the literal method.
The Sin of Sodom: Inhospitality - Gen 19:1-11
Although there is some debate, most experts believe that the phrase "to know" does refer to homogenital acts. What is certain is that the text is concerned with ABUSE, not simply sex (37). Since exposure to the overnight outdoor cold of the desert could be fatal, Lot, a "righteous" man, invited the travelers inside. Allowing the men of Sodom to abuse his guests would have violated the law of sacred hospitality (38). Additionally, had the Sodomites wanted sex with the visitors, the offense against them would have been multiplied; forcing sex upon men was a way of humiliating them (38). The sins of Sodom, therefore, were: abuse & offense against strangers, insult to the traveler, inhospitality to the needy, and sexual abuse. The author was not concerned about sex itself; Lot offered his daughters without a second thought. It is not about sexual ethics, it is about abuse and assault. Using this text to condemn homosexuality is misusing it (39). This meaning of the text is reinforced by other parts of the Bible as well: Ezekiel 16:48-49 (40), Wisdom 19:13, and Matthew 10:5-15 mention abuse / inhospitality rather than homogenitality as the sin of Sodom (41). It's sadly ironic that the oppression of homosexuals today -- not welcoming them, disowning, abusing, insulting, beating, etc -- is the very sin of which the people of Sodom were guilty. Those who oppose homosexuality because of the "sin of Sodom" may be considered the real "sodomites" (41). Boo-yah!
The Abomination of Leviticus: Uncleanliness - Lev 18:22, 20:13
The condemnation of homogenital acts occurs in a section of Leviticus called the "Holiness Code" (45). According to Jewish belief, Israel was God's chosen people and was bound to God by a covenant requiring that they not take part in the religious practices of the Canaanites. Remaining separate from the Gentiles was to be "holy" - set apart, different, chosen, etc (46). The prohibition of homogenital acts is because of religious considerations, not sexual or moral ones. The point is to keep Israel from taking part in Gentile practices (46). A parallel example is the Catholic practice of not eating meat on Fridays during Lent; while eating meat is not considered wrong in itself, Catholics are expected to act like Catholics out of religious responsibility (47).
The Hebrew word used in Leviticus 20:25-26 for abomination is "toevah," which means unclean, impure, gross or taboo (like eating snot, I swear he actually says this in the book). The word "zimah," which means sin, was not used (52). Toevah is not something sinful as much as something that makes people uncomfortable (50). Homogenital acts were considered "dirty" by many people, so they were prohibited to avoid offending sensitivities (51). Rules of etiquette and courtesy are necessary for the harmonious functioning of society (54).
In Matthew 15:10,18-20, Jesus made it clear that being a moral person & keeping the requirements of the Jewish law are not the same thing. He rejected the importance of the purity/cleanliness laws because what mattered to him was being pure in heart (56). In essence, Jesus rejected the only Biblical basis for condemning homosexual sex, and did not give any new reason for condemnation of such an act (59).
The Unnatural in Romans: Socially Unacceptable
To understand Romans 1:27, it's important to read verses 1-28 (61). For Paul, the use of the word "nature" was more concrete than our abstract sense of 'Nature and the Laws of Nature'; for Paul, the "nature" of something was its particular characteristic. (Consider his other uses of the word in Galatians 2:15, 4:8; Romans 2:14,27; I Corinthians 11:14.) You would not expect someone raised as a Jew to be ignorant of the Jewish law, and you would not expect a Gentile to act like a Jew; that is not their nature. Something is natural when it responds as it is expected to (64). So when Romans says natural relations were exchanged for unnatural, it means that they were engaging in sexual practices outside of the ordinary. It is not even certain that this referred to homogenital acts; it could have been referring to anything outside of the missionary position (p69). There is no sense that these practices are wrong (65). In Romans 11:24, Paul uses the same term for unnatural (para physin) to talk about God when he grafted the Gentiles into the olive tree that is the Jews; it was something unusual, but if it is immoral, then God would be immoral (66). In 1:27, the words dishonorable / shameless indicate that these things are socially unacceptable, not morally wrong (72). It seems to be a deliberate parallel with Leviticus (73). Paul makes a point of impurity, despite the fact that Jesus was not concerned about it, because of Gentile idolatry (75) and as an appeal to "Jewish self-righteousness" (76). He hooks Jewish Christians on their sense of moral superiority, then later in Romans he makes it a point to break down the difference between Jewish & Gentile Christians (80).
I Corinthians & I Timothy: Abusive Male-Male Sex
Argued to be difficult to translate, Helminiak contends that I Corinthians 6:9-10 and I Timothy 1:9-10 condemn abuses associated with homogenitality: exploitation & lust (108). (He launched into a long section on translation, which lost me.)
Biblical Endorsements of Homosexual Relationships?
I Samuel 18:1-4 recounts the affection between Jonathan & David, loving one another "as his own soul," King Saul bursting with anger at the knowledge (103), their intense sorrow when parting, and David's lament when Jonathan died - "your love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women" (II Samuel 1:26) (104). The story of Ruth & Naomi is an impressive commitment of one woman to another (104), and Daniel 1:9 may hint at a liason between Daniel and the palace master (105).
first off, thanks for all that reasearch. secondly, i just have to find humor in the p.69 thing. you obviously noted it as well because it is the only time you used a p. to indicate page.
Hi everyone, I'm new to the diner. Just looking for some advice/opinions for a potential North Park student. I'm a commuter student to Wright College now and I should be getting my associates in general studies this spring or summer. Is North Park a good choice for someone that wants to get their teaching certificate? How about social life? Anyone else transfer there? What's the dorm situation for transfer students? I know thats a lot to swallow now, so I'll ask some more later after everyone has some time to digest.
And you'll probably find every opinion under the sun on this bulletin board.I felt like the education dept. did a good job, and it really felt like a family, working with them and doing my practicum stuff. So I think I can recommend the certificate.
Social life -- it depends what you're looking for. You'll DEFINITELY get a better feel for the NPU community living on campus. That's the biggest complaint that commuter students have generally, that they don't feel like a part of the campus community. But that's because most of the NPU activities happen on campus, and many commuters have off-campus jobs, or don't hang out outside of class. It's a complicated mess.
I feel like I met the best friends of my life at North Park, and so while I feel like it's somewhat a strange social environment, at the same time, I feel very overwhelmed by all the good people I've met. It also depends what you're looking for. While there are many different kinds of people on campus, from atheist to evangelical and everywhere in between, the school is a Christian school and so some things are very distinct compared to a state of secular private school. Visiting hours, for example (midnight S-Th, 2A F-S), it's a dry campus (not that weird).
One nice thing about NPU is that because it's a smaller school, you can get involved with pretty much anything -- choir/gospel choir, sports, theatre, you name it, you don't have to be a major to get involved and be taken seriously.
You also don't have to be a Christian to find a place on campus -- the NPU people on this board who are Christians are also not the kind of Christians that are often offensive or annoying and would be happy to be anyone's friend. I think there are a lot of people like that at NPU, but there are also people from both the religious and irreligious stripes that will make you want to tear your hair out. That's probably the same at any small institution, because you see and know pretty much everyone by the time you graduate.
I'm sure everyone here will have different opinions... but that's why you asked!
the NPU people on this board who are Christians are also not the kind of Christians that are often offensive or annoyingAs a alumnus of this institution, I take offense at that. I'm working really hard at my religious fanaticism, and soon will be offending members of the world's largest religion by my very presence in uniform in their country--(by which I mean the USA) . . .
NPU's like any other little private religious school, having attended another one of them before transferring in, one with the added social dysfunction of having the Greek system on campus, which to me was more hindrance than it was good. No frats/sororities here, save academic ones.
As for transfer students, you'll get a dorm room with another new student--I ended up with a freshman basketball player who couldn't read at a high school junior level, had never been outside of Harvey in the south suburbs, and consequently was gone within three weeks--because all your credits, while they transfer in, will not accrue until you've completed your first semester--then you can move towards a single, or the campus apartments (which are really the way to go, unless you go pedro's route, and more or less take up residence in Hanson Hall, the music hall, or as a Resident Assistant in Burgh Hall for a decade or so).
A disclaimer; Are they still doing the housing lottery by class year, which then depends on credits earned? Anyone know this? H. Doyle, from the Halcion fog?
I speak to you, marmora as an alum, the former transfer admissions counselor/transcript evaluator for NPU, and a grad student at the attached seminary, so I'm not just talking out my rear end. Make sure you get a City Colleges NPU transfer guide-there shou;d be one for Wright College--I wrote it--and take a look at what will transfer and what you still will have to take. Also, your education department advisor will also have to evaluate your ed courses from Wright.
If you need more info or whom to call over at the Admissions department, give me an email; mguncheonATnorthpark.edu.
In fact, I rewrote that sentence several times trying to get it just right.lieutenant, I was just trying to acknowledge that there is a stereotype in our culture of the "obnoxious christian" (or his cousin the Superchristian!) but also say that a new student shouldn't fear that everyone who calls themself a Christian at NPU is that way or will try to convert him or something. Or that everyone on campus is a Christian.
As to your comment about offending people, someone will always be offended about something. And the issue going on right now (that would lead people to be offended by your uniform) is a lot more complex than religion and has a lot less to do with your religious affiliation. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while people may be offended by your uniform, or the fact that you chose to serve in the military, I don't think many people who lump you in with the "obnoxious christian" stereotype.
We could split this hair all day though.
marmora, what else would you like to know about NPU?
Have you visited the campus yet? I really think that the people are what makes NPU great. I'd recommending coming and talking to some people about transferring and classes and stuff, and just get a feel for the campus.
also check out Cafe Victoria, possibly at a time that at least one of us, or our compatriots, are there.but aside from that, my feelings about NPU are mixed. I went there for one semester, and the circumstances surrounding my having to leave are not necessarily the fault of the administration, but I wasn't impressed with how it all was handled. However, North Park IS a good school, with excellent academics and a focus on important aspects of becoming who you are through education and community. I met some of the coolest cats at NPU (largely, the cats on this board) and I learned a lot in the short time I attended there, both academically and otherwise. My youngest sister is currently a freshman at NPU and she really likes it there. I'd recommend going there, if you feel after checking it out that it is the place for you.
Tell us a bit about yourself, marmora, and help us to understand maybe even more about where you're coming from in terms of education, faith, community, academics...
not that reading that stuff will let us know if NPU is right for you, but we might be able to relate more specifically the NPU experience for you in those terms.
whatever the case, I hope your decision works for you. welcome to this board.
wow, thanks for the quick responsesWell, a little bit about me...I attended Lane Tech high school, I reside near Diversy and Austin, but would most likely dorm if I went to North Park. My first semester of college was at UIC, I was a commuter and I hated it. I'm now in my third semester at Wright and thinking its finally time to really go to school. The last two semesters at Wright were flawless academically. I work downtown at a law firm on the days I don't go to school. I've been in an Assembly of God church for the past eleven years, a penticostal church before that.
I was at the North Park campus about two weeks ago putting up flyers for my band's show this past Saturday. I passed by the neighborhood this past Friday to see what was going down around campus at the start of the weekend. I'll admit it was cold, and that it was the first week of school, but most everyone was in their dorms at nine in the evening. That doesn't really bother me, but I guess I can't sit still for too long. I plan on coming to the "Focus Days" or whatever the open house type thing is called February 15/16. By the way, how does North Park treat vegetarians? Is there a meal option for them?
Not everyone who went to North Park was Christian?!? That surprises me, though I'm not sure why. I didn't go there, marmora, so I have no advice, but good luck on your decision.
and welcome to the Diner!Gunch, the housing office is right downstairs from us, and they still do have the blasted housing lottery as far as I know. One of my student workers is a junior, as is her roommate, and they're still in a dorm they DO not want to be in (Anderson, God bless 'em). On that end, I think they need some housing issue reforms, but there's not a lot I can do about that. There is a major housing crunch right now due to the influx of applications. I had a single room junior year (which I wanted, oh, so badly at that point) and a campus apartment senior year, so I don't feel I have much to complain about, but I know there are others out there who have gripes.
I have to say that my time at North Park was very fruitful and wonderful in many ways, and I'm honestly not just advertising 'cause I work there. And I DON'T work in admissions, thank the Lord, so I'm not of the recruiting ilk. My main adjustment issues had to do with being in Chicago and away from home, rather than with the place itself. It sounds like you won't have to deal with that. I was not a practicing Christian when I went there, and I have to say that a lot of my faith has to do with some pretty special people I met--friends and professors--and classes I took which let me explore that on my own terms. I don't feel there's an oppressive Christian element, but it's certainly there for the taking (minus the oppresive part, unless you seek that out on purpose), especially in the right hands.
My main reasons for attending were, in this order, A) my twin sister was there, and I missed her terribly. I had been enrolled and planning on going to the University of Oregon. B) I wanted a small, liberal arts college setting and thought Chicago sounded cool and C) I was quite the wild child in high school, and I felt a Christian college would be a good arena for "straightening up," as it were. I know it's not up to any Christian institution to reform someone, but I found many good, solid friends who provided a much more fulfilling type of life than I had been leading. There were the campus parties and general college craziness if you were looking for it (and at times I was), but overall it is a pretty wholesome environment. As Pedro & Baggins noted, most of my best friends are fellow North Park alums, and having graduated nearly 4 years ago, that is saying something.
The "small, liberal arts college" environ I really do have to give NPU props for. I became very close to several of my professors and still keep in touch with them, which I think is a rare thing at any school. The classes were stimulating, personal, and just amazing, in my opinion, especially as I got deeper into my major. I really do feel I received a wonderful education, even if we're not up to par with Northwestern or U of C or whatever. It meant more to me that they actually knew who I was, were willing to meet outside class and discuss things I needed help with, etc.
NPU has a wonderful Education department, if that's what you're looking towards. I'm going back this fall to get my master's in Ed. (free, because of my employment there, hallelujah!), and again, the social life is what you make it. There are people from all walks of life, all denominations, Christians and non-Christians alike, and, in short, just like the diversity of any group you'd find in 1500+ people assembled in one place. You'll meet plenty of wonderful people there if you so desire; I assure you that.
Keep me posted; I am at mlledolyeAThotmail, and you really are welcome to write. I work on the academic and career planning side of things, so we help arrange schedules, find graduating students jobs and internshis, etc., so until you actually decide to go and are accepted (as I'm sure you'll be) our office won't have much contact with you.
Last words: one of my co-workers today brought me a "Dental Recovery Kit" including applesauce, pudding, videos, magazines, etc. for my convalescence. At least in my experience that's the kind of caring and true thoughtfulness I have come across there. And I was leaving another co-worker shouted, "I'll be praying for your strength and quick recovery!," and not in a cheesy sort of way. She was in earnest. Those are the kinds of thing I love about North Park. I really feel cared for. It's a good place, in my mind.
I meant to add that the cafeteria has become much more vegetarian/vegan friendly in the years since I was there. The food in general has seemed to improve, and I never thought it was so bad to begin with, so that's a plus.
How easy is it to get help for tuition? I know it depends on what your family makes, etc...But any general ideas?
NPU was my first choice anyway, but the price really made it happen for me. I'd be surprised if you got a better deal somewhere else, unless you're a valedictorian or something.Steve, I work at NPU too, in computer services... if you want to come have lunch with me and Cinn sometime and talk smack about the 'Park, I'd be up for it.
Who is your band? Some of us here are/have been in this band.
Did you know a Mr. Peterson from North Park who was a student teacher for Mr. Rico for a little while in 98 or 99? That was me.
I had Mr. Rico in 2000/2001, his last full year! It was a music appreciation class. 98 was my first year at Lane, and I knew nothing about the music department really until my senior year.My band is called Weary Beside The Well. We have a simple little website http://wearybesidethewell.tripod.com We're doing a rock type thing I guess. It would be great to get to go to lunch with you guys sometime, let me know what works for you, and I'll see what I'm doing.
Yeah, I don't want to alarm anyone, and I know it was the week before school began, but when I was posting flyers up at North Park, not a single person stopped me. I probably look like a student, but no one seemed to care. I had the exact same experience at Concordia too, so maybe I shouldn't worry about North Park security. I know most colleges are like this, maybe I felt just felt funny. I guess it's really friendly atmosphere though, the woman at the bookstore even put up a flyer for me! Thanks to her if she's on here!
I'm totally down with North Park being Christian, I am too. I was wondering though, are there manditory events or services that you need to attend because it's Christian? Someone told me they were upfront with the school about not being a believer and the school said "fine" and stayed out of his way.
Well, I've posted an awful lot today. I look forward to the responses and I thank everyone for helping me out.
I believe you are required to take an introductory Bible class, maybe an elective too? I'm not completely sure what the requirement is, but it must have been mandatory since I took it.There are Christian-themed events and chapel services, but none of them are mandatory. And you don't have to sign a statement of faith or conduct agreement, which I believe is rare for Christian schools.
one thing i really respect about North Park's stanec on faith is that you DON'T have to sign anything or go to mandatory chapels or something. I could never do that. I would chafe at the bit, and resist at every twist and turn. better to have quality options available for the students and let them decide.
the current requirements include one Intro to the Bible class and then one more theological class, most of which are really (truly) interesting, or were for me. Coming in as a transfer, you may have similar credits which would meet at least one of those (at least the ntro class, if you've had any sort of Bible class at a previous college). And Chapel is 2 (or maybe three? I think three, but not sure about Fridays...they may have changed that). I went occasionally, but IT IS NOT mandatory at all, which I think separates us from Whe@ton and the like.As for finanical aid, I got some scholarships and generally did alright, and that included spending a semester in England studying abroad. I also did work study, but that money went straight into my pocket as spending money, which was nice. Basiaclly, I would say that since a single parent was sending both myself & my twin sister there at the same time, we made out pretty well. I'm still paying student loans, and private schools in general ARE more expensinve, but they also tend to offer more aid.
And yes, Pedro & I would be delighted to have lunch at any time to discuss all of this in more depth! (Once my mouth heals and I can eat again, that is). I would include Friar Gunch in there, but he may be busy with classes learning to hone his religious fanaticism.
I hope you know that was a joke.
Yeah, campus security is lax, mostly in the good sense. I've been hassled when it counted though, like when PC and I tried to go to my office at 3:00 in the morning dressed like we just came back from the 'Wood and had no identification.And of course the "Ever heard of a drive-by shooting? Finish your cigarettes and get inside!" one. Actually, I can't remember if I was there for that one.
Anyway it was the same lady.
Ok, so campus security is lax, except for this one lady. But she makes up for everyone else. She's the same person who reported me for being in Caroline Hall after hours and not reporting myself to security. She said she needed to know who was in the building so that if there was a fire they could identify my body. No joke. Now that I think about it, that lady probably has some very serious emotional issues going on and I probably shouldn't laugh about it.
The next morning, I left for work only to run into the head of security H.T. with a security guy (they're all off-duty cops, HT was some CPD bigwig) ringing my doorbell to make sure it was me that was in the building.
but I was stopped a few times in the summer that Oldpossumus, and Wiberg and I decided it was our mission to get up on every roof we could. Granted we only got stopped once and managed to get everywhere except for up in the Cupola, which is harder after remodeling job, but we WERE stopped.North Park is a nice little school, the people are all very nice, and the professors are great genuine people who will advance your life academiclly and personally. I still communicate with several of them, even the one's who weren't family friends before I started school there. Some of us have the different take on the place because we have been there in the neighborhood, or with family working there for most of our lives. I've been hanging out on campus since I was 12, and spent the better part of my life killing time in the library or hanging out in Cafe Victoria across the street, but I still never got tired of it.
My wife went to Northern Illinois University, and there she was just a number, her smallest class ever had 25 people in it, and it was her senior thesis class. The smallest class I ever had was 3 people, it was two other poeple and me all hanging out with the Professor for a semester, you learn more in that setting than you ever could taking a class with a hundered other people.
one thing i feel compelled to add is the whole swedish covenant camp thing. it may not be as noticeable to you, marmora, as a transfer student sort of expecting people to have known each other already. but when i arrived as a freshman, i was seriously confused about how all the other freshman knew each other so damn well already.the specific religious affiliation is swedish covenant and many of the students who choose north park come from that background. they've grown up going to the same camps together and their families somehow all know each other, too.
vegetarian-friendly cafeteria. i was veggie for the second half of my time at north park and ate very well. they provide soy milk, you just have to ask for it. and they are very open to suggestions from students. but their salad bar, combined with the several options per meal make it pretty easy to find something good.
the financial aid npu offers made it possible for me to avoid being one of the herd at UofI. watching my siblings go off to large universities now, i am happy to have had the small school experience.
I did not welcome you, marmora--Welcome to the 'Diner.If you have reasonably good grades, you'll get a reasonably good package which you can, as I did, turn into a GREAT package with Federal Stafford loans.
I also have had the small school experience and am happy to have had it.
Again, feel free to ask us anything.
CinnamongirlPedro, lunch sounds like a great idea. The sooner the better, as I am on hiatus from fanaticism studies.
I talked to Nicole White today and she signed me up for the overnight visit Feb. 15 and 16. So far it seems everyone here likes North Park to some extent.
From an outsider looking in a little... I found NP kinda like a small town that, although very pleasant, nice and good, lacked a few oppertunities that I had in a larger more secular school. But that's just an opinion. Ironically the only people I still keep in contact with from Chicagoland went to NPU, even though I grew up in the far wesern burbs for the first 18 years of my life.
our small college experience has molded us into people who are more excelled and you WANT to stay in contact with our supreme awesomeness.Ok seriously there are flaws to any school and sometimes small size means less funding and not as many experiences, but all in all any school is what you make of it, and if you don't fit the school you are going to you won't get out of it what you have the potential to get from somewhere else.
I don't disagree with smax at all, however I probably had broader experiences here than I would have at a state school, because I was able to be a music student, ra, in theatre, performing on campus, in ensembles, etc. rather than focusing just on one or two main things. I would probably have had a more directly challenging musical experience at a "better" music school (although I really do think that NPU has a great music program), but honestly, I don't know that I would have wanted that in trade over what my college experience was. But that just speaks to the fact that different schools are right for different people.
... a flyer for Syracuse DIPA at NPU and thinking it odd that this small college in Chicago was using my school's study abroad program. There were literally so many things going on at Syracuse I would bet I still don't know about all of them.Most of the things I'm thinking of that are available at bigger schools are clubs and the variety of majors available. My life has taken a very serious change becaue of the outing club at school and I'm pretty sure at least one of the majors I had (out of 5) weren't and probably never will be available at NPU. I don't know if the diversity is all that worth it, it seemed to make a lot of people just confused, but it's hard to say no to more options.
2 cents please
What's with all the tear downs and vacant lots? Almost all of the East side of Sawyer between Ainslie and Argyle and Kedzie at Carmen? Is North Park going to grab some of this property?
New athletic complex.
Actually, I think marmona is refering to the teardowns to the East of Hibbard (or however that's spelled). The city condemned all those buildings and tore them down. There was a sign for another school (?) but now it's unclear what will be done with the land. The land at Kedzie and Carmen is going to be the athletic complex though.
Okay, I didn't think there would be two new athletic complexes and I had not gotten around to asking someone to clear that up. Thanks.
I almost typed "new nerth porker" but then that would just be a pipe dream wouldn't it...anyway, what did you people think of the new north parker? I like the design except I think it looks more like a brochure than a magazine. Plus I think the body text is way too small. I guess they finally did it in house rather than farming it out to the printer's wife.
What's her name wasn't the best as far as the North Parker went. The magazine was always a pain in the ass to whomever was working on it, I almost got wrangled into it there for a while, best decision I ever made, staying far far away.
D3b @nderson put it together. I think it's more pro than ever.
It looks sharp, but the body text does seem really really really small.
she's pretty good, I haven't seen too much of her work, but I know they wanted the communications department to do it in the past and they said no, 3rin McK3nn@ didn't want to get involved, but I guess it'd been a while with no student to do it so they handed it to Deb, poor thing.
Was 3/4 the reason the NP Press was so kick-ass in the times that ole pedro and my un-humble self were contributing weekly.
Not to be a downer, but I was talking to my academic advisor at Wright College today, and we were looking at the transfer guide to NPU from the city colleges and I am missing out on a few of the requirements. We called the transfer guide at NPU and the gentleman said what is on the sheet is what you need. For example, I'm taking Economics 202, but they want 201.The other confusing thing on the sheet is that they include info about the North Park Dialogue course. I'm not so sure how that's relevant to someone transfering from a city college. It's like okay, then you have to take that after you transfer then, so what? why is it there? Maybe it should just say "Warning: They talk about God here!"
If someone would care to offer some explanations that would be wonderful. Perhaps these aren't requierements to transfer, just the classes that will? I have a few classes that seem so close to filling requirements, and they did say that exceptions can be approved. Perhaps the classes that don't fufill the general education requirement would fufill a major requirement.
Sorry I'm just venting a bit because I know that all these classes would transfer to almost any public university. More to think about now. sheesh
but a lot of the classes will probably be able to be transefered as either major classes or elective classes, and those are usually needed to have enough credits to graduate. I never transfered in so I don't know the specifics, but I would imagine they will take almost all of the credits, but some won't count toward waht you want them to.
The reason they want you to take that course is not because they talk about God there (not that you would mind), but because they want EVERYONE who goes through North Park to take the North Park Dialogue. It's not like a freshmen intro to npu course, or a weeder course, it's a class that is designed to kind of be an NPU "signature" course. They are probably putting it on there either to advertise it, or to be perfectly clear, about what's required. I haven't seen the transfer sheet so I can't speak to that.What other courses do you want to transfer but won't? I would try calling back and specifically saying "I have econ 202 from wright college, can that take the place of econ 201? Pretty please?" I don't know.
And yeah, they're definitely not requirements to transfer. ANYONE can transfer -- it just means you went to school somewhere else -- it's just a question of, what will you get credit for. And yeah, like BigJ said, if they don't fulfill a gen ed, it's POSSIBLE they'd fill a major req., but probably would fill any elective reqs.
And yeah, glitches in transferring are pretty much par for the course anywhere.
is always tricky, but there are people here who can make it as easy for you as possible. You will need to get in touch with our transfer admissions counsellor to get a better idea of exactly what will and won't transfer. Call the Admissions office to be connected to him or ask about it when you visit next week...the counsellor you'll need is named R0B Berkee.You probably will need a Dialogue course(s), which is Pedro said is like a "signature" North Park course, discussing the campus theme, community, etc., but depending on how many credits you're coming in with you may need less hours of it than some students. I am not an authority on this--again, you'll want to speak to an admissions counsellor. Talk to the counsellor to get the facts. Hopefully the visit will give you a better idea of how you feel about the campus, the atmosphere, how you'll fit in, etc. Again, I can't say enough about how much I enjoyed being a student here, but everyone has different needs in what they're looking for in a school. Good luck!
Specifically, do as Pete suggested. Call with the specific number of the course, ask Rob the questions (all of them), and he will talk to the transfer credit evaluator (ah, memories of my old job...how I don't miss it).You have the right to do this with them. You can also come in and have a sit-down eval performed--at least when I was in the office, we did that--I'm not sure they're doing it now, but they should, gotdangit.
Most likely, what will happen is these classes you're concerned about will come in as general elective credits, and once you declare a major, and your files get over to the academic side--they'll do a preliminary graduation audit, which you can sort of get a jump on by bringing your transcript and the eval NPU Admissions will have done over to your advisor--(NOTE: Wait until you pick a major and get assigned someone from that department. If you just go with your transfer advisor, unless it's Ms. E. Snezek, who's fantastic (tell her Pete Son of Peter, and Gunch sent you), they might not be able to advise you as well)--and he/she will sit with you and tell you what will replace what within the major.
Basically, you need to be proactive and not let the wheels of admin grind your transcript to shreds. But it's really not that much effort and it will set you up to maximize your time here at NPU.
Thanks for the responses. I guess I really want to be able to graduate on time and not have to spend another year in school if it's just for a couple classes. I guess my situation is that I transferred into Wright after getting burned out at UIC and I just wanted to keep going to school, but not have hardcore focus on any acedemic goals. We'll see what happens though. I keep you posted.Oh, by the way, does anyone know Fadi1 L33? He went to NPU, he's been my advisor at Wright and he's started attending my church. He told me North Park is much more warm and fuzzy with admissions than state schools, kind of like what cinnamongirl said. Pedro, I understand the dialogue course is mandatory, but then is the intro to npu course you mentioned just for freshman?
I just made that up -- many schools have an "orientation" class, but I think that the NPD is that and other things together.I think they rolled freshman composition, "intro to npu"... i can't for the life of me remember what that was called...oh yeah, Threshold, and a class called FAL (foundations and landmarks) into one course -- the NP Dialogue, which everyone who is going to graduate from NPU takes. But it's much broader than an "intro to npu class" it's more about reading big books, discussing the campus theme, and writing good papers. It sounds kind of cool, I think, but I didn't have to take it -- i took it's grandfather, FAL, which no longer exists.
So there is no "intro to npu class" per se.
sounds familiar... but I don't think I knew him.
His name was Fadil Lee, according to my last spelling you might have though he was a robot on Star Wars.
I didn't know there was no more FAL.... Some of my best early NPU memories were from that class.
Marmora- when did F@dil attend/graduate? (The name sounds familiar to me too)
I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!
what did we do? I hope you're not being sarcastic...
I got a NEW computer today--it is AWESOME--Zach put it in. It is a Dell with a flat screen monitor (wow, I told you I know nothing about computers) and it just rocks. It's beautiful, and sleek, and fast. Yeehaw!
well, good then!
few weeks as school ends, and last week was particularly crazy. Yet last night I was with a group of friends, some of who I haven't seen in a long time/since I started working here, and reflecting that even my "bad" days at work, which are few and far between, are better than most of my regular days at my last job. I really enjoy the students, our student workers, and especially the people I work with. There are a lot of wonderful people here. I feel very blessed to be a part of this community.Sorry to get all sappy there. This being said, I will admit that I am looking forward to some peace and quiet in the near future.
This past week, two of North Park's finest, RDs J@nna and G@vin, became engaged...to each other. Actually, as of this fall J@nna has taken over S@undra's place as Dir. of Housing because S@undra left to pursue a new career. I know J@nna's been here for several years; I am not sure about G@vin. I don't know him too well but he seems cool, and I really like J@nna. I see them together freuently as we work in the same building, and they seemed like a little more than friends, but I overcame my innate curiosity and resisted asking out of respect. They've really tried to keep it on the D.L. because imagine how crazy students would go with that information--knowing two RDs were dating (which has been in the works since January). This past weekend, while out in Oregon for his sister's wedding, he proposed. Now they can let their love be known, to students, the NPU community, to the world at large. Anyway, for those who know them, I am so happy for them and I think that is an EXCELLENT story!
His G-Ness is a great guy, let it be said.
because Janna deserves a good one. I do remember our Res. Life Christmas outing last year, and I thought he was really funny. And also remember he is a trekkie--which wins points with anyone even remotely related to my sister...
Your sister, being as she is, should have appeared in that documentary--Trekkies?, and collectively stopped the hearts of about sixty obssessed fanboys who would have regarded her as a figment of their imagination.I much prefer her more literary twin, let it be said. (Call that H-Boy of yours--I'm a'fixin' my eyes on his turf...lol)
But I agree with you, having had the privilege of knowing them both through class, she does deserve a good one.
you're making me blush. You're totally nuts.Hernando may not look like much as far as fisticuffs is concerned, but watch out--he does carry a knife. Hee.
So do I.....in fact, I'd bet there's a small minority of 'Diner people who carry knives. (And yes, multi-tools count.)Funny, though. Subject is dropped.
Dav1d H0rner will be done with NPU. I don't know why or if there's any drama behind it. It seems a little abrupt, but nobody in my dept. knows why. H0rner has one of the longest tenures of NPU presidents so it's not necessarily suprising that he's moving on. It did seem to come with little warning though.
That will be the end of an age...
i think it's been coming though, i remember either my first or second year there was a lot of talk that he was going to leave for another school, but he was somehow convinced not to. I feel like i remember that he and his wife just didn't like chicago that much and wanted to be back out east.
I really like him, he's a really nice guy. I only hope the don't put Spruce B1ckner in his place, that guys a dick.
that is not a judgement on his ability. He could be great for npu, and he may have all the necessities to run a university. But i don't like him. I thought long and hard about dropping out when ol' dave was on sabbatical and spruce took his place, he's bad news.
when i had her for class, she told me that they've been wanting to be 'free' for years. they already travel a ton and have family all over the country, so i'm not surprised at all that they've finally made the decision to move on.by the way, sue h0rner would have made a kick ass NPU president herself.
sue is a really nice lady. I had a nice interaction with her at a soccer game a few years ago, she thought she knew me, and I explained that since i'd been around for over five years, she's probably just used to seeing me around :-) Though, i have to say that she had a little meeting in the chapel one summer, and they were surely drinking wine on campus, tsk tsk tsk.
...big changes around NP in the coming couple of years. I'm so curious to see what the new president will be like. H0rn3r really changed the direction when he came around 15 years ago. There's no reason to think the new president won't do the same.
North Park across the board raise!
In thinking that that raise is the first in a long time? A couple years or more?Corporate slaves of NPU, please chime in...
there was an across the board raise last September....last Jan. we didn't get a raise but we also didn't get a hike in our insurance rates, a MUCH better deal if you ask me....especially since this year's family insurance rates increased by about 30% while the pay increase comes no where close to covering the difference.
No, Really!
i can feel it coming in the air tonight.
cracked me up. it was cool of him, but does it really deserve front page/top story??
I mean, seriously?
that is a very, very good point.
Resist..urge...to...killEspecially since my ace 16-inch softball pitcher for the Sem team works for the Comm dept
I didn't actually mean that as a crack on NPU -- it's just that I can't think of anything more newsworthy than a $10,000 donation to the homelessness ministry... much less from a well known rock star. But Cinn, you're right, it is kind of dorky that it's frontpage headline news in the paper.Lieutenant, what are you talking about?
Just I'm really sick of this place, is all.
the npu press?
without bogging this down with too many details (though if you'd like an explanation I'd be happy to share that)the question is....long term, how can North Park best serve its alum? what sort of programs or publications or events would interest you enough to participate and more importantly, enjoy?
what would you like to see North Park do or not do for its alumni?
an apology would be a good start. I think that they should worry more about what they're doing for the students, figure out who's getting shortchanged and fix those problems first.
i love tom.
i love north park, but i could have loved them more. I think they should just worry about providing the current students with the best education that they have been paid for, if the alumni want to get together, they should do it on their own, the school should support it with like, a database, maybe some letterhead for mailings. personally i felt unwelcome by many of the students at northpark, and there's very little that they could do that i would enjoy or participate in. I can hardly believe that the school is going to get more donations from the alums by having events or anything, it'll be a long time before i give them anymore money at all.
I am NOT asking to figure out how to get anyone to give np money! this is simply about keeping np alum connected to the school.....nothing more!!!
i'm just saying that if they send me something or invite me to something or somehow i have to expend more money on them, it's not going to happen. isn't that what "keeping alumnis connected" means? I'm nottrying to start trouble, but there is no way short of a paycheck, that northpark is going to keep me close to them.
...and your honesty is helpful. thank you!to answer your question... yes and no. historically for np that is what has been true but (here come some of the details I skipped over earlier) we are trying to figure out how move away from that and better serve our constituency, with the largest and arguably the most important group being alumni. I've sat in 2 meetings this week and I have another scheduled for next week where np staff are sitting around trying to figure out new and more effective ways to serve alumni....since I am sick of all of the spinning wheels, I'd thought I'd ask some alum directly in hopes of actually making some progress with this group.
I hear you on the current students issues, but unfortunatley I have nothing to do with that. I work strictly with Seminary students and alumni. I will be happy to pass along comments and concerns to the right people though, if you would like me to....or you can always email the administration yourself.
but getting back to the original question....what can NP do that would interest you and you would enjoy??
send you the North Parker? and/or the annual report?
host a sports outing to Soldier Field or Wrigley, etc.?
membership to the new rec. center when it gets built?
discounts at the Covenant Bookstore?
host a Quake night?? (I don't know if I could get that to fly, but I can throw it out there as a suggestion straight from the horse's mouth, if you just say so)
completely forget that NP has limited fnds to do this kind of thing....if you could have NP do ANYTHING for you as alum, what would it be?
i'm with tom.but what i do want is to be able to either captalize or push forward in some way, shape or form because of people i met there. that might sound negative, but let's be realistic, people. well, anyway, in the business of entertainment it's about 3/4 about who you know and how you use them [ouch.]
so, what i'm getting at is some kind of database or online contact page that would not be used against me by the school itself. for example: i was trying to find the last name of a girl i knew at np by digging out my old scopebooks and flipping through them page by page. i don't think she was in there so i never found her. it might be hard to get a full listing that stays updated, but it would be a) nice to hear from old friends and b) nice to be able to contact them when you let go of the string for a while or didn't feel close enough to them to stay in touch but would like to contact them for some reason now.
however, i don't want northpark to be able to send me all their money requests. i'm still paying them out my ears even when all i have in my pockets is lint.
why don't the set up a freaking northpark.net frickin' bbs or something. i'm sure steve wouldn't like it too much. I belong to a list from a high school i went, a small high school 1000 students from k-12 and i probably get 50 emails on that each day, if they had something like this, or just a database like that i think it would be great. I'm just not particularly fond of random mailings and stuff. If people want to get informed, give them that option. I would just rather not get something in the mail that means some poor kid has to settle for sub-par nonantibacterial nongermicidal soap in the bathroom cause NP had to send out the thousand leaflets. I remember reading the memo when the school was like, half a million in debt so they were going to start using "lower quality" paper products.
granted i've never been in an intimate and qualified position to judge fairly, but i've always felt like NPU has been less than stewardly with their resources.
I think a sort of bbs/networking site for north park alum would be great. And it's the kind of thing I always thought would be cool when I worked there and had some input on the web stuff. I wish I would have got the ball rolling on that. Anyway, I envision a site that is separate from the main North Park website but is sponsored and funded by the University. There would be a bbs/forums area, a way to track down alums in your area, news and notes about north park and NPC alums (not just twice a year in the North Parker), calendars for local alum events--both official and non-official. Also connected to the site could be free north park alum email addresses with basic webmail access and a small amount of storage space. Most of this stuff could be put together using some free CMS stuff and some other packages for webmail and forums. This would probably require a FT position to develop and keep running as well as dedicated volunteers to keep it going.As a former employee and one who worked on the 2nd floor of old main I came to understand that it is a cold hard fact of university life that you have to raise money year round all the time or programs and projects will die. A small university with grand ambitions is always going to have some lean years. I was there during the library campaign and without the fundraising push and all the mailings we'd still be using wallgren waiting for it to collapse. There are other decisions that maybe weren't so good (Occ Therapy anyone?) and you can make an argument that more money should be put back into the academics (which, I think, was what they attempted with the whole provost/curriculum restructuring a few years back).
-give me the diploma i earned and am currently paying for.-let me put "dibs" on the library's vynil collection for when they finally get rid of it.
don't you already...nevermind
The presidential search committee didn't nominate anyone to present to the NP board to be voted on at this year's annual meeting so it'll be another year until a president is elected.
that means I'm still in the running!
they were deadlocked. 'Twas a hung jury. Someone in the sem tried to use a pop culture analogy of the Bachelor/Bachelorette. I didn't have any rope, or I would have hung him on the spot....
do you need more than a BS degree to be a university president? Cause if not...
is it a public list, or are they keeping that a secret? if public, is bruce b1ckner on said list?
But as far as i know, he's on the selection committee and not eligible...unless he removes himself from the selection committee
that's nice to know. thanks for the info.
Nobody! Kind of dumb, but it was J. Ph3lan and some dude from Texas that were in the running. So, they didn't give a recommendation but are asking Ph3lan to do a lot of the work of the president in the meantime, kind of insulting if you ask me, but then again I never agreed with much of what the NP Board of directors has done.
The triumvirate currently reigning in indifference over NPU has only one member actually physically present in the city, so Phelani gets the shaft...
It's the end of an 11-year odyssey for me. I don't know what else to say, other than that most of it was absolutely great. NPU isn't a perfect place -- no place is -- but it was the right place for me.Two nights ago, I had a dream that I had graduated and moved off campus, but never actually cleaned out my dorm room in Burgh hall -- it was still locked up. I had to go clean it out to leave. When I opened he door, there was all my dorm room junk -- the loft, the desk, my old 13-inch monitor, the homemade burgh hall desks. Everything was covered in dust and looked about 6 years forgotten.
Somehow, my houseplants were all still alive, and I specifically remember there being a cool bonsai tree in there (although I didn't do bonsai in college). I also had a fish tank with all these alien-looking animals (something else that wasn't true to life). One type of animals were "Blood Minnows," that were these fish, but they looked almost more like mottled leeches. But there were also leeches, and some kind of crabby-spider type thing. Anyway, they miraculously survived because one of the houseplants bore fruit which dropped into the tank and the animals ate the fruit, and then they also ate each other -- but had reached an equilibrium within their little ecosystem.
Anyway... it was a weird dream. I told alhp about it last night, and she said, "awwww.... you had a 'leaving north park dream'" In telling it now, if I were to interpret it, I would say that it was about finally leaving, physically and maybe psychologically, the last vestiges of still being in college, still being in that kind of "undergraduate" mentality.
Anyway, I have a lot to get done today, so I better get crackin'.
Thanks, North Park.
I remember, as an undergrad student here, reading your column "The Sacred and The Profane" (did I get the name right?), and thinking, "I'd like to get to know that guy." I'm very glad I had the chance. It won't be the same without you here, Pedro.
I put in my notice at NPU today. It was a little difficult. I guess besides leaving (which will be sad, as this was a great place to work, and I've been tied to this place in one form of another for nearly nine years), it makes it all so real. Moving, leaving friends, leaving some very beloved people behind, looking for a new source of money/livelihood, starting a program of academic study which will kick my ass. In a positive way. My last day here will be September 23. The friends I've made here (both as a student and now an employee) have meant a lot to me, changed my life, and a lot of them will be in my life forever.I feel like I'm giving an acceptance speech, so I'll stop. Now comes the scary part: jumping into the great unknown. No time to back down now, so rouse The Ginga battle cry: It's all good!
if any friends from a afar, especially some Californians, are going to be out in this area before the first week of October, PLEASE let me know. my travelling days may be at an end for a while save a short trip to Georgia this winter and possibly a trip to LA, if L.L. and raskol will have me. keep me posted if anyone's mid-West bound.
If, for some reason, LL or raskol won't have you, you can always stay here, too!
it would be a privilege to have you stay with me - i will have room for you in my new apt! you have to come for a nice period of time because everyone wants you. plus you have to experience la la land, since you've never been here before. then when you are done with school, you can move out here. wait...i'm getting ahead of myself. sorry.
i would love to live near you again, and of course all of the other californians (thanks for the offer, pete and anna. i might take you up on it for a night). i do love the west coast.laura is my best friend and probably the only person i've ever highly successfully roommate-d with (what kind of sentence was that?), so special props to her. if i come out to l.a., you may never be able to get rid of me. it seems to suck a lot of my friends in.
i can't wait to see you all, truly. i will get to see a few cool areas of this country in the next few months which i've never seen. "not working" (aka being a bum) sure frees one up for travel...rock.
DO YOU LOVE WXRT RADIO? Terri Hemmert, weekday morning DJ and host of Breakfast with the Beatles on XRT, will be emceeing a concert by gospel legend Mavis Staples on Friday night, September 9. The concert will take place in North Park's own Anderson Chapel. Student tickets are only $5; staff and faculty can purchase their tickets for $15. BUY NOW! x5553 or jpope@northpark.edu. (J. Pope - 9/5) - - - - - - - - - -
MAVIS STAPLES! That's RAD!
I found out about that on my last day, or the day before. How cool is that?
Jenn told me that she was in charge of something or other that weekend--she didn't tell me what... I'll be in town for a wedding and will therefore be doing rehearsal dinner jazz, but maybe....
i wish i could go. if you can, enjoy! if anyone involved in NPU stuff knows of any students who can be USHERS, also pass that along to Jenn.
We need some "church" up in here. . . .Rollo's trying but Mavis Staples...Now, if the soulless facade and bland vibe of Anderson doesn't kill her....
They finally created come parking on half of the tennis courts behind Sohlberg. In a weird show of common sense, they just opened the fence and threw down some black paint with white lines. I know the city requires permits and there are water drainage issues, but the whole thing seems so beautifully simple. Unfortunately, it is indeed temporary due to the permits and drainage.
anyone remotley familiar with NPU's campus should check out these photos.they're taken by suspending a digital camera from a kite. the photographer is a current NPU senior majoring in physics.
it's more fun to see those than the google satellite images.
Well, the Covenant Bookstore is closing in June. It can't survive in today's environment. Follett is going to run a university store in the old fitness center below the Viking Cafe. I think students will order books online and they'll be delivered to the store for pickup. That's the big news from last week.
it was the area's only place where you could get veggie tales dvds and phyics books in one stop.
That makes me sad. I bought my mom birthday, Christmas, & mother's day gifts there for four years...
i'll bet that system of ordering and picking up books will be very convenient for everybody. i'll have to tell grandpa R3ub3n about that. he probably already knows...
Tell him I say hi! I love that guy. He was my first real supervisor after college. I could always convince him that it was a good day to get doughnuts. It makes me smile to think of working with him back then.
i guess my old boss J.C0bbl3y has left NPU. Which means it is hard for me to contact her and use her as a reference. argh. anyone have current contact info? I emailed dh in the communications office so hopefully she can help me.
I have her info. what's your email address?
I love this place.Stan, my email is leklund_at_tastytronic.net
thanks!!
he's a real sweetheart. simply the sweetest, gentlest guy you could ever meet.
I didn't know C0bbl3y left, do you know where she went? She was my boss too for a few years, I think I was the worst student worker ever!
you WERE the worst student worker ever! ;)I guess they moved out west in the seattle area but I haven't made contact yet so I have no idea what she and j0sh are up to.
the aforementioned J. Ph@ll@ps lost his mother yesterday after a long ilness.
I knew John's mom was not doing well at all, and without his dad there to take care of her it was sadly only a matter of time.
J Phillips has left the buidling!
...and not a dishonorable discharge. I know he's been talking about it for a while...
and does anyone have his address?
Email me Merc,my first name dot my last name at wrigley dot com
JP bought a house down state somewhere about 2 (or maybe 3?) years ago. He has been looking for work there ever since but has been unable to find anything. So while he continued his employment w/npu, his wife and daughter moved to their new home. Over these past couple of years he had been renting an apartment and commuting on the weekends to be with his family. Recently, his daughter moved back to chicago and his wife became ill. She is doing much better now but she needs JP around full-time, so he resigned his 26 year tenure at npu and will continue to look for work closer to home.Thursday, 11/30 was his last day of work and that afternoon we all crammed into brorson lounge to bid him farewell. There were lots of laughs and a few tears, all in all very much a relfection of who JP is and what he has meant to the npu campus...and in his own words ``I'll miss all the people, but it's time.''
I also have JP's address...email me at:emm ess tee ay en elle e why
at
en oh arr tee aych pee ay arr kay dot e dee you
my connection (aka my mother) didn't have it.
i'll have to email you and send him a christmas card. that man is a legend. and a true sweetheart. couldn't find a nicer beloved character of a guy if you tried.
i wish i could have been in brorson for that farewell.someone needs to invite him to the diner.
Victoria's is closed.
Today I learned that P3t3r M@rks has brain cancer. I don't have his email anymore, but left him a message on a site where Bun6ie fans were doing so. The website dates back to September, and it wasn't looking good then. I don't know the situation now.Does anyone have contact info for him, or for his family? His mom used to have me over for dinner a lot when they lived across from Burgh...but I haven't talked to them for a long time.
I don't know anything about that... P3t3r V3rh4g3 might though, his address is first initial lastname @ NPU.
i came here to post photos, but the last post has me trying to get the same info. a friend of mine from high school has brain cancer and i am organizing an art auction to take place this october to raise funds for research. would like to involve peter if it is something of interest to him. if anyone tracked the email address down, would you be so kind as to email it to me? k3ls3ylink @ gm@il.comalso, if anyone else is interested in donating a piece of art or helping in any other way, please let me know.
here are the pictures i came armed with. s@r@h beckstr0m's beautiful baby:
sorry. i moved the link right after i posted those.liam mugavu buki:
I think Peter VerHage is probably my best guess at trying to get ahold of Peter Marks. VerHage's address is his first initial, lastname @ our alma mater.
your alma mater is losing more and more of its soul everyday.
I'm curious.
where to begin. nutshell version....they continue to happily trample on the underlings and support even the most immoral and anti-Christian practices by administration.i'd bet you can guess who i am and i'd be happy to talk more offline and off record.
that news about P3ter breaks my heart.
It looks like NP got flooded out last weekend, students were moved out of anderson and burgh and placed elsewhere, ARA had to bring in meals from northwestern. Sounds like chicago got 7 inches in 24 hours.
magnuson is still out of commission and will not be up and running for a while; they had 12 feet of water in the basement. and carlson was shut down because the water was above the windows in the basement. i guess some labs got a little bit of water but nothing earth shattering. other than that, things weren't any worse than any other bad chicago rainstorm on npu's campus.
