(null)Created 1 Jun 2002 at 04:41 UTC by baggins.
URL: www.ecrush.comNotes: maybe this is stupid. but i felt like asking questions on this topic, and it doesn't really fit anywhere else. so, lets hear some advice from all you Rico Suave cats out there on the romance tip. see, i just can't seem to do anything right here, ever. and i don't know what to do about it. it's killing me, lately, as i am thinking about it more and more, and getting depressed about the whole thing. so let's hear some general talk (or specific, if it suits the topic) on just how a guy can go about getting the girl (i mean this in the most humble, sincere, gender- honoring way possible).
Well J, I'd say that anyone reading this board probably moved you up a few notches for your honesty and earnesty. (Earnesty?)Seriously though, J, I think you need to give people a place to start. How about a topic or a question, or soemthing.
ive been spending a lot of time with her recently. we have a great time together. but i can't read any 'signals' or 'body language' when it comes to this kind of thing. i pretty much have to be told in no uncertain terms that there is really something there, and im not just wishing it to be there. because, see, my problem has been that, in the past, i think my timing has been really off. wait forever to make a move, or say anything, or do anything about how i feel. then i learn that its too late, coulda happened 6 months ago, or 1 month, or a year, or whatever. but not now. also, many times, i just get up the nerve to do or say something about how i feel, and i get shot down. pretty much a no chance, im-really-flattered-but-i-like-you-more-as-a-friend kind of response. which is cool in a way. im glad that i have these people in my life, and i wouldn't trade their friendship for the world. but that's definitely not what i want to hear. and this kind of thing adds up, and builds. to the point where i wonder if it is even worth it to try anymore. i have to believe it is, but i've been hurt too many times. i know its a big sob story. i don't want anyone to feel sorry for me. its all over and done with, and i don't need to live in the past. but i would like to not be alone for the rest of my life. i fear this a great deal.
so, what do i do? there is the obvious point that i should just keep trying, continue putting my heart on the line and watching it get run over, until the right girl comes along one day. my patience is wearing thin, though. im sick of trying, failing, and often losing a good friend (i don't always LOSE them, but things aren't ever the same, EVER). i can't blame them, they can't be asked to feel any differently. i have to believe there is a way. but lately i've been losing faith.
don't ask who she is. thats not relevant right now. at least not on a ~public~ forum.
Okay talk about your hopeless romantic -- I beleive there is someone ideal out there for everyone, destined for you by God or whatever you will, karma, anything. So you're right to hold onto that faith.If you've been spending a lot of time with this girl, why not ask her on a date? I mean, it's one thing to just hang. That's very cool. But you could very gently let her know you're interested by asking if she'd be interested in going on a date, you taking her to dinner or whatever. It's a way to guage interest without putting all your feelings on the table for her to stab with a fork / drool on / devour / whatever. If you just ask that and she indicates she's not interested, there's not much lost. You're still buddies. I do know what you mean about things not being the same, EVER. I've had this happen too. And in the end, if something can tear apart a friendship, was it really strong to begin with?
What're you looking for in a woman? That question is for all of you, I'm curious (and you ladies, what're you looking for in a man?)
wow. hard to put it all in words. i guess, i want the woman god has prepared for me, and prepared me for. hopefully, she'll have qualities i admire. some of these would be:
the ability to laugh at all things. i tend to find my own private humor in just about everything i encounter, and i'd love to be able to share that with someone.
conversation skills. i want someone who knows how to listen, who knows how to steer her thoughts around a conversation, and really get into ideas and abstract thought. or just go with the flow of a totally banal conversation, and make the speaker feel less boring than he/she really is.
i want someone who challenges me. im not nearly motivated enough, as it is. i could be. maybe its asking too much, maybe i should be working on this myself (i am). it'd be nice to have somebody who loves me for who i am, just as i am. but i don't want her to be content with stagnation, either.
i would be a liar if i said that physical attraction didn't enter into it, but i think that this eventually follows if everything else is in line.
i want to be desired.
I think that honesty is always attractive, as is courage, in either a friend or in a something more. I have had four conversations (to date) that fit into the "I like you, what do you think?" or the "I sense you like me but I am not sharing the vibe" categories and three of them worked out for the best (the only one that didn't work was a "I sense you like me but" because the guy was a lunatic who didn't want to listen to me). In the three other instances, I got the feelings out there, was able to process them in realtiy rather than in fantasy, and then dealt with the reprecussions. Three guys who I still love and admire and who I am still friends with- and I don't think that in the long run they minded me bringing it up even though it was awkward at the time. People like the truth. And people like to be trusted. You do put friendships on the line in that sort of situation, but as dex said above a friendship that can't stand the fire may not be the right starting block for romance anyway.
Of course, the other side of this blunt honesty is that you can also lose happy hours of fantasy. Once a person has shot you down, so to speak, it is nearly impossible to imagine it all working out to a two- car garage with three kids (not that that is the goal, but you know what I mean). But, it has been my experience that it is a relief to know one way or the other, providing an inner peace in spite of any pain. And once the mystery is gone, you find you can live without them as perfect as they seem. A body needs closure.
I don't want to come off sounding all wise or brave or callous or however I may be sounding- often I too have faltered in the face of these decisions and just let my little heart pine in quiet until nature or distance or the hand of God removed my beloved from my affections or scope of attainment. After all, I am twenty five and have only had four conversations like this, I am just saying that, as intimidating as it may seem, honesty brings both resolution and healing. Plus, you get to be super proud of yourself.
As to loneliness, I hear you Jeremy...sometimes you just want someone there. I've ached with it... However, in my more reasonable moments I like to look at my aloneness as solitude like Rilke talks about it, a time to become familiar with yourself and with the world. And, ultimately, I person ought to know how to be alone as well as in community.
always refreshing to hear the female response to this topic (thanks to dex, too!). sometimes it seems like anything would be better than the solitude. I've always admired your boldness Amy, i could learn a lot from you there. the heartache that comes from a bad end to one of these stories really really sucks, though.
I'll give an analogy here, of how i think about things. I play and study poker. some of you may not put much stock in such an endeavour, and that's fine. but what i tell you is true. it is a game of incomplete information. this incomplete information can be approximated with the laws of probability. there are times when you are making money theoretically (in the long run of things) where, in the short run, stastical aberrations cause you to lose. if you get your money in when the risk/reward scale (calculated by knowing and understanding the odds at play) is in your favor, you will make money in the long run. I tend to think in that risk vs. reward mindset when i approach our original problem. i am always wanting to be almost positive that things will work favorably before i emotionally 'invest' in someone i am interested in. i mean, i could go around asking total strangers on dates, but that will probably not get me anywhere. id prefer it to be likely that i will get a 'yes' before i ask the question.
im having a hard time putting things into words here, without getting into too complex an analogy. i hope you can understand what im getting at.
I called my mom yesterday to wish her a happy birthday. I'm pretty sure she was joking but she asked "Do you have a girlfriend? Do you like girls?" In her defense my parents have only known about maybe two girls I've ever dated (not that there have been many more). The moral of this little interlude, is that I'm a firm believer most are lost, but that's kind of what makes it interesting. The fear of being alone is always great, I fear being lonely more... and I've seen from example that one can be lonely when married, with 2.5 kids, a dog and a house in the suburbs living that wonderful life most young people dream about.
What am I looking for? Living in rural Maine my pickings are slim. (There's actually a locally know phenomena called "Maine goggles" They're kinda like beer goggles only thicker.) I used to have delusions of grandeur, romance and friendship. These days I'm interested if there's a pulse, a full set of teeth and no major mental conditions. Ironically I'm still very single. I plan to someday write a biography called All the lunatics in the world.
On the brighter side of life, because of my (seemingly) tyerminal singleness of late, I've had a lot of oppertunity to watch and talk to people almost like an anthropologist. Seems most just want to be asked. Funny... I still can't do it either, maybe that was the darker side.
When feeling hopelessly romantic or hopelessly alone- read Richard Brautigan. A lesser known beat poet my friend Max told me about once.
If you can't find any Richard Brautigan books (most are out of print) or are too cheap to buy good poetry and literature head here or you can read my favorite Brautigan book online.I'd also like to recomend Lenard Cohen, or if you're in a really bad mood Charles Bukowski.
extra junk not allowed.
The problem is that the "http://" part was omitted, so the browser interprets it as relative to the current page's directory.
i love wags.
that is all.
did jen make you write that? i love her too.
blah...
stagnance is pestilence...
So, what's happening these days, dude? It's ok if you don't want to post, obviously, but I'm curious at least.
not a freakin thing.
On the bus this morning, I think the girl sitting across from me may have been an ex-girlfriend. It was a very strange mix of emotions. I was still attracted to her, which pulled me one way. At the same time, I felt sadness: the last time I saw her was that night when I told her I had to see if Amy was the one, and she walked away in a flurry of hurt and anger, leaving me with nothing but the sound of water gushing from the moonlit fountain and the inescapable feeling that I had just trod on something precious in the attempt to reach a goal which might have existed only in my head.There's a girl in a wheelchair who catches the bus where I do, and she always insists I get on before her, because the chairlift takes so long to pick her up. She seems nice enough, and I suspect that some day I may refuse her offer in deference to my policy of letting ladies get on the bus first. She seems like a nice girl, cheerful and sociable, and I wouldn't mind having some company on the way to work, should she deign me worth her conversation.
What I don't understand is how the ex-girlfriend--a person against whom I harbor no ill will, someone with whom I have had many good conversations and who, at one point, I counted a close friend--can now be such a distant, unapproachable figure, yet this complete stranger feels more open and promising. Seeing the two of them there, awash in all kinds of emotion, was not a good way to start the day, but it did seem a moment worthy of writing up here.
Thanks, Neale.
Two straws?! I'll take em both, thank you vrrrry much, and you can pay the bill.
blah... i should learn to keep my mouth shut, i think...
yeah, just one straw...thanks.
i feel like i keep trying to order a shake, and they keep serving me liver and onions. overcooked. with no straws.
I feel like I'm standing at the counter trying to decide what kind of shake I want but that there are a ton of annoying and probably stupid people crowding the counter and sucking down milkshakes in a way that just puts me off and I think, maybe I don't want a milkshake after all. But then, when I walk away from the counter, I just feel really lonely, so I think maybe I want one after all. But, I can't decide again, and the whole vicious thing starts over again. And, what are those obnoxious people at the counter giggling about anyway?
they get paid 5.15 an hour to make the damn milkshakes. seems to me like its not a bad idea to try strawberry, and oreo swirl, and mint chocolate chip, and if you don't like any of them, you can always go with vanilla. you don't have to pick the best on you first try.
I'm going to stick to my cup of coffee for a while.Shakes give those nasty cold headaches... and straws? Straws are for stirring in creamer.
Bah.
rock!
Hi J- too bad about your lonelyshake. I'd probably be in that situation too, except that I haven't really even met anyone for months. Like, I've been introduced to some of pedro's friends at redvinegar shows, but that's about it... no one that I have really gotten to know.The trouble I've had in the past is my relationships all end the same way. There's a big angry breakup (only once initiated by me) followed by a brief period of bickering, several months of silence, and then a long apology from her for having ended it (or in the one case where I did the breaking up, an apology for all the reasons I did it). I'm sick of it and I've been single for a year and a half, in part due to not really meeting new people and in part due to being sick of The Pattern. Sometimes (for instance, now), I miss the companionship. I think a major part of the problem is that I'm just not an easy person to get to know. I tend to be rather reserved, and tend to convey a lot less through verbal expression than non-verbal.
Anyway, officially I'm "working" today, so I should probably get back to writing code.
J: Communication.
what's that?
also - its over. i don't even have anyone to pine over anymore. blah.
Sorry Jer. That stinks.... Swap your milkshake for a Captain Morgans- eventually all will be well.
Sorry, Jeremy. That is muy suxor.
if i swap for Captain Morgan's all will not be well. let me assure you. i definitely cannot let myself go down THAT road. drinking my troubles away won't help. i know that. (you're the last person i would have expected to suggest a drink to hide from what sucks in my life. what gives, Amy?) thing is, even when i do drink, it doesn't make it feel any better. there is no catharsis in drunkenness for me. which is a good thing. cigarettes, unfortunately, soothe the soul like none other.
MUY MUY.
music soothes the soul like none other, as well. and i love listening to music. i have always done that, and alone in my car is definitely not a new way to listen to it. but i have a lot of those times, and belting out a GNR song at the top of my lungs going 90 down I-55 smokin a cigarette does something to help ease the pain. and music in general has a lot of things to say to help get your mind off whatever, or on whatever. sometimes i feel like music is the only thing i have left (besides my friends who are great and all, but they can't really do all that much to help the situation).
That's why you should try new HURT-BE-GONE! New HURT-BE-GONE eliminates heartbreak at the root of the problem -- your soul! Yes, new HURT-BE-GONE... uh... I don't know where I'm going with this....seriously though Jer, there's nothing wrong with your soul, and I love you, and it WILL turn out ok. You deserve a good woman! (I think, anyway.)
it means a lot to me. i know it will happen someday. the woman god has prepared for me will find me, or i will find her, someday. and then all the old failings and what-ifs will be forgotten. i thought it would be funny to take out a personal ad:
SWM - Tom Bombadil seeks Goldberry. Hi ho hum a dillo! hey!
Rennaisance Faire
true. and a couple others. but the sentiment, cheezy though it may be, is right on. of course, even I don't geek that hard.
balls out dude!
i'm telling ya "go for the gusto!"
i assume you mean with the other girl we discussed last night.
we'll see what happens.
thanks for the encouragement.
yes the other one.
no problem.
i don't see it happening. i can't ever get more than like 30 seconds to talk to her before she's off again. i am so confused.
maybe the singles ad should read:
Beren seeks Luthien.
Jeremy, you are the coolest & the reason you can't find a good chick is cause they're scared because you ROCK OUT!!! I never thought I'd find a decent guy but fate has a way of slapping one on the arse when they least expect it. The only problem is that my b.f. likes STAR WARS. No one is perfect. Hang in there Wags.
You know Heidi we don't hate you because you don't like Star Wars so there's no need to feel the opposite, we do ostricize you and reject your opinion, but we don't HATE you. :)
think i might be falling into the same old loop/different girl. why does it have to be so effin hard?
</whining> ... sorry
I honestly don't like talking about girl problems with people other that my current roommate, but you know bags, girls are like shooting fish in a barrel, if the first one you shoot isn't good enough, put up with it for awhile, and then shoot another, and so on, and so on. Eventually you'll get the perfect one for you, but you'll've already shot it so you'll just have to eat it, and find a new place to fish.There really isn't anything to be done, I have come to realise that I can have all the girls whom are friends that I want but none will want to be involved with me because of my GUT which technically isn't even part of me, and the fact that I'm a respectful person, two major things that keep guys out of "the game". But my major realisation is this: "Nice guys finish last, but at least we finish". I know that whatever happens I'll be happy, it may take awhile, but it will happen, this is probably the only thing that I have faith about anymore, whatever I do in life, I'll find some way to enjoy my life no matter what point it's at.
sorry, i know thats a lot of shit
somehow, i always miss.
because, you know, thats asserting violence over someone/something.
is don't lose hope. if you're meant to find love through a relationship, the perfect person will come along... i liked that theory so much, I bought the company!
My husband was 34 when we got married (so sometimes it takes a while), and yes it's his first marriage, and yes, I was only 22. There's totally hope, and you're never done with being surprised until you're dead.
I was sitting in a smokey bar the other week with I girl I used to see. We were talking about relationshipes and the like. She had just ended one, I had just started one. She asked me what line I used this time.I was shocked and confused but she reminded me about the way I first broke the ice with her. We were talking at a party, kind of the "if zone" kind of conversation where you aren't too sure, and they're not too sure, but you think there may be something, but you're really not sure and you'd hate to make a friendship strange, and you....
So apparently I stopped her mid sentance and said "Will you just shut up and kiss me?"
Apparently it worked. Baggs, be blunt. Worse case scenario you have to take the time and explain. At least you'll know and you'll feel less stupid when you hear that she felt the same way two month later.
Dex' husband Jay is incredibly cool! It's certainly not HIS fault that he didn't get married sooner. Women around the USA may not have known it, but their hearts were all collectively broken when he tied the knot, as they will be when you do, Waggs.
thanks. i have considered the blunt theory. i just have to work up the nerves to actually do it. kinda like jumpin off the mountain dew swing for the first time: you know you want to, in all probability you won't get TOO hurt if you fail miserably, and it is probably the ONLY way that you're going to ever experience what comes after you let go and hang on and jump away. so yes, im working up the nerve. about a dozen shots and i might be there. but i think its coming soon.
I used to be the blunt kind of guy...but it was more like...i'd just try to make out with the person...that's kindof a two-birds-one stone thing...but only kindof. Cause it either works or your done. at least that'show it worked for me. I gave up on that though...now i just wink at all the girls...they think it's cute
i wanted to unearth the last entree eaten, but i had no interest or input in the last three so i picked the first one i could respond to. it somehow turned out that i entered the cigar room. what does a chick say to a roomful of mopey dudes talking "politics"? get over it? i'm not really a romantic person to start with. definitely not a hopeless romantic. but i think it's cute when neoacerbitas winks at all the girls. five years ago i was having a bad day and went downtown by myself. i ran into tom in some department store [what were we both doing there?] he cheered me up and we walked around then took the train back to north park. i happen to think he's one of the coolest guys around and i don't think that is considered finishing last. i don't think he does either. do you, tom?
i think this belongs in the "compliment cookie" entree... and i love tom, although i am pretty sure he plots my death every day... ah, such is roomate life...
I'd say don't be blunt, but simply be honest. Though I think doing that is often more difficult...
i don't know how i keep letting myself get hurt like this. the old familiar sting comes out to haunt me again...
Good luck getting through it baggins. If you need some company sometime you know where to find me.
what are your New Year's plans? party at Anna and Liz's place. if you need a ride i am more than happy to oblige.
time does it start? I'll probably be hanging out at Nick's place to see the evening out.
I'll be there at Anna's with my beautiful wife, although Lila tried to steal her away to her party without me! She said if it's a money thing why don't just you come Meagan? Uh HELLO! That's my Wife you're trying to steal out from under me on New Year's Eve, I think Not! Wags all things happen in time, I've discovered that personally. And now look at me, I'm fucking MARRIED! It's still hard to take in. Oh and I love Tom too, but for me it's more of an erotic thing... did I just type that?!? Oops, oh well the cat's out of the bag, and I'm out of the closet! VROOM VROOM!!!
I didn't really realize until skimming through this entree just how much I missed honest conversation with people who aren't afraid to be real.Jeremy, even though we didn't hang out much at NPU, I've definitely been stuck in the firend zone most of my life, so I can relate. And I also wait way too long to even say anything about my feelings,
Now, out here in beautiful Montana there aren't any girls that I've found that I can talk to for very long, let alone be interested in. Don't knock the companionship of a good woman, even if she is just a friend.
Believe it or not, it's actually easier without the object of your affection in your presence day after day.And to reply to something Amy said back in June, I've been in similar (romantic) conversations between friends as well and I'm pleased that I'm still friends with many of them (though none of them worked out romantically). In retrospect, it's better, though there's one or two that I wish we could have given it a shot.
Oh well, joy comes in the morning
I've decided to ask someone out today. I am posting it here so that I will have some sort of accountability- so if I don't ask I will be confronted with my own cowardice... Why does asking someone out always have to feel so scary? It's not like I haven't been both accepted and rejected before; it's not like I haven't been the accepter or the rejecter before either. It is no big deal, and yet it feels a big deal....
For those of you who might read this in the very near future, I'll take some advice. He is a new teacher at the school where I work. Should I email him and aks if he wants to get together sometime or should I walk over and ask in person. I have never been to his classroom before, and so walking over might make it seem like a much bigger deal...but it would definately be more personal. So, I guess what I am asking is should I take the safer route for me (email) or not?
Especially if he is a new teacher, he may welcome a friend in the place. Ask him for dinner after work sometime or something, but I'd do it in person. I totally know what you mean about the fear though!!! I'm not entirely sure why we fear it. Good luck, you can do it, and he'd be crazy not to accept.
on both accounts, ask in person, asking via email just makes it easier for him to reject you (it works both ways) and yes he would be crazy to turn you down, I'd go to dinner with you, but the distance thing would make it a really pricy meal. :)
Good luck! Remember that these things always get built up in a person's head until it seems a lot bigger and nerve-wracking than it really is...and why wouldn't he want to go to dinner with a great, intelligent girl? What does he teach?
GO! GO! GO! GO! GO!
take an ink pen (preferably a color other than blue or black) and write on a lined peice of notebook paper:will you meet me for dinner after school? pls. check one:
- yes
- no
fold it up sixteen ways and then find the giggliest girl you teach and have her hand-deliver it to him during study hall or something. and borrow some perfume from another female student and squirt some on the note.
no, but seriously...
i wouldnt go the e-mail route, and if "going to his room" is intimidating, try and find a place outside his room, like the hallway or teachers lounge or something. and cinnamongirl is totally correct, its no big deal, and turning it into one in your head doesnt help at all.
go get 'em!
A failed attempt at lunchtime-- too many students and another teacher around. I chould have just asked him if I could talk to him for a minute- it wouldn't have seemed that odd- but I didn't and so didn't have a chance. And, I just went by his room and it appears like he is gone for the day... I'll try tomorrow. Thanks for all of the encouragement and great advice (grady). I will do it in person- and I will be brave enough to do it.
Band. He's a percussionist. He started playing with the praise band at my church.
Is he looking for a band in Chicago to play with for Summer Vacation?
ames - just start a conversation with him. and ask him in person.
that's one thing i vowed never to do, serious shit like this on the phone or email.
however, when i was sophomore in high school, i sent a note, from Detention, to a girl who was a senior, asking her to prom. in the yes/no fashion grady described above. and it totally worked!
Since he's new, I'd couch in the "get to know you, show you around" terms; it's less pressure for you or him. But definitely ask him in person.
i sound so hypocritical telling to 'just do it'. why? because i was with her for a few hours tonight, all a perfect opportunity to tell her how i feel. but i didn't. i don't even expect anything to come of it, but i just need to get it out of my head. all i could think about was how big a loser i was sitting there and not saying anything. help!
okay, those who know me know i am usually joking around more than not.Ulysses' idea (Apr10, it's up there a ways now) of circling yes or no...would be a slam dunk. If you're a teacher and get a note like that, cripes. How could you not go out with the person? If fate ever has me dating/pining for a teacher, I'll remember this one (though I'd probably forego the giggly kid in favor of a mailbox in the teacher's lounge or something).
Grady, you still have me laughing, five minutes later. :-P
the best way a guy ever picked me up was on the EL. I was on the blue lien goign to school and this guy I had seen on the train several times was looking at me. The train got really crowded and we were laghing at one another from across the car. When I exited at jackson he got off also and came up to me. He said, 'You going to class?' I said 'Yeah', he asked if he coudl walk me there, so he walked me to my red line stop and wrote his number on the due date slip from his library book. He was nice, unfortunatly we didnt really click...but that was the best pick up I've ever had.(ps. ends up he went to von and gene knows em)
Well, I have been back and forth trying to catch Mr. Maybe over half a dozen times without finding him in his classroom. And this weekend at church, I didn't see him when he or I weren't surrounded by at least 30 people (and in my case, all teenagers). At this point, I am seriously considering Grady's note idea...I wish I had just asked him that first day- cause this is still just sort of hanging out there and I have nothing new to add. Fortunately, I don't feel like a coward because I really have been exerting effort here, but the timing has just been BAD... Is that a sign from God?... The other problem with waiting is you start second guessing yourself. Anyway, the update is that no news is no news. (And I might appear to be a stalker to band students and other teachers.) Thanks again for all the nice encouragement, and Isaac, we are totally going on a dinner date when I am in Chicago in June! (I guess you can bring your wife if you want...)
There's a girl in the undergrad film department who's my age and I've been wanting to ask her out for many months, but alas, the timing (and my courage) are never right at the same time. But you could ask him how he's settling in, has he found any favorite restaurants, something like that.
" but the timing has just been BAD... Is that a sign from God?... "
no. its a sign your afraid. which is normal. i'll do it if you do it...
Maybe we can get Chris in on the deal too. Before the end of this week is the deadline. Let me know.
Go for it all of you! And let me know when you're in town Amy and we'll hook up.
mine might span the weekend, due to her schedule...
I asked. Saw him tonight at a church thing that I didn't expect him to be at, cornered him, and said that I'd like to get together sometime. And he said he had been thinking the same thing. We didn't set any definate plans but are thinking something next week after all the Easter-jazz. So, I'm feeling pretty good, and I hope that baggins attempt is as successful as my own.
im really glad for you ames!! i think friday night. we have plans, so yeah, that's gotta be it.
you rock girl, see we told you it would be no big thing. I love that situation, my last girlfriend actually beat me to asking her out by about 2 minutes, I was just going to when she asked me, sounds like good times. And baggins let us know how it goes.
NIIICE!
Hey BigJ, Ive been thinking about it for the last six years or so...but let's screw our other halves and run away to Kalamazoo together. Taboos be damned!
I never really liked Kalamazoo, let's go to Holland instead, it's still in Michigan, but not as high falootin'
I just want a nice guy to ask me out. Since I have been single nothing but creeps have been surrounding me, liek I'm a dying carcass surrounded my buzzards. I hate it. Last night during what I thought was a harmless hang out, this kid tried to make out with me. And thn just 5 minutes ago, a guy friend of mine asked me to go study with him, no big deal right? But he squeezed my thigh as he asked. Where are all the gentlemen? Where all the dude looking for love?
that sucks. you want i could take you out to dinner sometime. um... thursday?
You see, herein lies my problem, guys see that I'm having issues and they want to comfort me, which just seems creepy liek they're trying to catch me at a weak moment, which I'm sure you wouldn't do, especially in front of all these diner fools, casue I know a few would kick your ass, but seeing as I'm sure you're a perfectly nice dude, we don't have to worry about, thanks though, for the offer. But I'm gonna pass.
*sigh*
whatever happened to that guy from your school?Hoping you didn't wimp out on us! (I mean that affectionately, of course). If he hasn't mentioned anything, give him a gentle nudge...Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Nothing. So far nothing. As I posted on here, I made the initial suggestion and he seemed sort of interested but that weekend was Easter and that entails busyness. Then, it was after Easter, and I waited a couple days to see if he'd call. Nothing, so on Friday I went by his class to ask what his weekend looked like and he was pretty busy everytime I wasn't. So we didn't get together. Then, of course I saw him on Sunday and we briefly talked about how the weekend plans had gone. Everytime that we've talked it's seemed really friendly, but, argh! I am getting a bit impatient. But, I kind of feel like it's his turn now. I made the first move...and the second move... And I want him to take some initiative here. And I don't want to seem too pushy...
pursuant...
make the next move. Equality all the way, baby. You shouldn't have to do all the work. Some people are just flaky about stuff like this...and who knows, maybe HE's shy about it, too.
equality huh? i wish...
so i just say "you know, if you don't me to...... you should just tell me" and stuff like that, hopefully the person would be honest enough to just be like "yeah, don't call me" or whatever but there's nothing like, or wrong with being direct like that. If you go the direct route though, i do suggest that you go that way though. say "if you don't want me to call..." or whatever, cause then it's like you're expecting the negative and it's a lot easier to take that "so, do you want me or what?". someone hurts my feelings when i was a kid so i never try to be direct except when i have nothing to lose.
today Hernando met me for lunch, the first time I've seen him all week (totally irrelevant, but I missed him!), and I had this package I needed to mail. The Mailboxes, Etc.--ahem...the UPS STORE--is right next to the restaurant we were going to. Anyway, as we're leaving the office, I said, "Will you please carry this box for me?," as it was rather heavy, and he did. My office bud Andie said, "Heidi, free lesson. Not, 'Will you carry,' but, 'Carry this box!'" Andie is so funny, and I just laughed. But then I said, half in jest but sort of meaning it, "You little Jewish princess, you!" And I love that about Andi, that she is so assertive. I have a hard time asking anyone to do things for me.It has nothing to do with being a Jewish Princess, because she's really not at all. She is a self-proclaimed semi-tomboy. My point is (and I did have one, I think), is that it's funny the way people just naturally adhere to gender roles. I didn't ask Hernando to carry it because he's a guy, but because he's simply stronger than me, and I was already weighed down by my handbag, which is like Pandora's box, and I knew he would carry it whether I asked or not. I even scare myself sometimes in the subconscious ways in which I think someone, in this case my bf, should do something because he's a "guy."
Oh--my point. Amy, I certainly don't think he (this mythical "he"--I'm sorry, I don't know his name) should make the next move just cause he's the guy. I mean because it seems like you've done your part, and for the sake of reciprocation he must now do his. You are too awesome of a woman to not be in an equal situation here, and you know that.
And Baggins, I know guys can be just as shy (if not more so) than women. Women are taught to be more effusive and open with their feelings, which ends up in their being more willing to put them (feelings) on the line. I hate the b.s. of a woman always expecting to be the one asked out. I have rarely done so in the past, but with Hernando, I did most of the pursuing. Because he is the prototypical shy, sensitive artist dude, and knew it was now or never. And I thank goodness I did it. Which is why I told Amy that nothing ventured, nothing gained. There's certainly nothing to lose.
Baggins, what's up with your situation? Not that you have to share it here, and I'll probably see you tomorrow at the Original Pop band's performance. You deserve everything, and I'm gonna make sure you do your all to get it.
you're awesome. i totally know what you mean. and i am all for gender equality. im pretty sure you know that.
my situation? well, the one night i had vowed to set the story straight ended up being not what i was expecting it to be, and i never had a second alone with her. nobody's fault, but it just couldn't happen.
i really should have said something last night. it was all i could think about. and it sometimes feels like she's just waiting for me to say something. but somehow my mouth was just incapacitated. and i felt so horrible after i left. beating myself up the whole drive home. at one point, i was just looking at her picture, listening to the Sunny Day song i posted in the Lyrics Buffet, singing along at the top of my lungs and crying. because i was too much of a wuss to lay it out, but it hurts so bad to keep it inside. grrr. i try not to be such a cliche emo-wuss. but sometimes it just happens that way.
anyway, she'll be there tomorrow at the show, i think. maybe tomorrow night. maybe not. i don't know.
and thanks for make sure i do my all to get whats coming to me. i appreciate the vote of confidence.
well I found out about his ex last night. It doesn't matter who he is...but she's a 6 foot tall red head...Firstly I would like to say that red heads are always- always nuts, and very bad news. But the flip side of the situation is how does a just barely over 5 foot tall, mousey brunette, who's already going gray stack up to this broad? With personality...ha ha. what if this brunette's personality is that of a spaz. On top of even that, his mother is still trying to get him back with this girl, who's name is Veronica...Veronica? Can this chick even exist? I should just quit now, before anyhting goes terribly wrong.
I'm a redhead...
so is *she*
people take shit too seriously. I am giving a personal apology to all redheads, or people who love redheads. I'm sorry if I have offended
i was just saying. im capable of disagreeing with you. and i knew you were joking.
if you knew me, you would know i was totally joking (which you don't, but hopefully i'll meet everyone here someday).everyone knows redheads are unruly pains in the arse.
see everyone was joking....
I was deadly serious.
The girl I've been seeing asked me if I would teach her how to use a chainsaw. I had a hard time not exclaiming with excitement that almost nothing would make me happier. Gender roles in Maine are apparently a little different.Baggs, Blvd... We've all sat around and thought "What if I had said something..." But I bet very few of us can think of a time when we've pondered "What if I hadn't said anyhting..." Just a thought.
call me very few
neo you have the advantage of being a rambling jack-ass, just kidding, I would say you are indeed in the minority Tom, I would say that regrets are usually for something not done than something done.
most people can't say that, and it's a good thing, cause i still have to live that shit down every day
when you say nothing, then you're left never knowing the outcome either way. But if you say something even if it iss nonsensical rambling that ends up making you look like a buffoon at least you had an outcome to ponder. Saying nothing has never gotten anything done, not romantically anyway. Communication is the key people! DON'T YOU LISTEN TO DR. PHIL!!!!!!!!!!
chicks with chainsaws fucking rock.
instantcofi - She was really excited when I told her a friend of mine has a chainsaw she can borrow for the summer. I love Maine.
Limey holding a chaisnsaw and I'm not sure if I'm scared or aroused.
i think it all depends on what she's doing with the chainsaw.
Yeah I think you're right!
i thin kyou guys have too much time on your hands....and not to talk about me like that any longer...
You have to admit that you with a chainsaw is pretty hot! Right Wags?And yes we do have too much time on our hands. Oh, and on a serious note, how's your filmmaking going? I hear Gene was a star in one of your movies.
gene did star in my film. A 3 minute silent piece on the harsh relaity of the world, and how we all would like to nestle into bed and never awake from our dreams...Of course that's a load of crap. I really just made it so gene coudl fall a shitload of times. He fell so many times, that he had internal bleeding in his ELBOW! Ha ha...too funny...ok not really.
that's great, I think you should make more movies designed solely for the purpose of making Gene bleed internally!
... this one could have sequel potential: Gene Gets The Bends...
I'm in a serious funk lately. I think I'm turning into a curmudgeon. This whole "putting work first" line is a load of crap. I'd like to have a real, honest-to-goodness date one of these days, where we're not "going out as friends" or she has a kid, or something like that.And the fact that I'm in a funk is really pissing me off, because I'm content in my bachelorhood and i don't really want to get married right now, or even necessarily want a serious relationship either.
Oh well, I just needed to vent. I'm done now.
it sounds like you're dealing with a case of free-floating angst, no identifiable cause, as Amy was recently. I totally know how that feels. I know it can be rough.Give yourself credit for the fact that you are incredibly motivated, and smart to boot. Those are harder virtues to come upon than many. Things'll be okay, as hard as that is to see when in a blue mood as you described. Plus, being away from your family and friends has to be hard. I personally don't know if I'd have the courage to do so. You're brave for facing that, and doing awesome things with your life, so you go, boy!
Ive made Gene bleed internally, and its also videotaped. I sold it to a kink site for 50 bucks.
We've all been there before Fook, it's just a good tihng for Gene that he heals quick.
I haven't mentioned it in a while, but things seem to be going okay on the Anthony front. We are still at the beginning stages of friendship, but it definately feels like the open and engaging kind of friendship. It is kind of nice that there are people in the world who are slow movers like me... except when you're getting impatient and it's driving you crazy... But, I'm not and it's not right now. At the moment, I am content with the pace and the person.
Jeremy- If I could share my contentment with you, I would give you more than half. I will be thinking of you and seeing you soon. We'll have a nice long cup of coffee and a chat.
i resist contentment on every level. to me, contentment = stagnance. not that i can't be happy with something, but continual improvement is the ideal as far as i can see.
anyway, its not really much of an issue right now. right now i'm just trying to figure out what im supposed to do.
and praying a lot. overall, i want God's will in all of this.
Had a shitty night last night.
<insert any whiny bit about how love sucks here>
A new twist though... imagine knowing what they're going to say before they say it. Deja-voux isn't quite right, far creepier.such is life.
screw all this crap.
Truly sorry, Max.
yes. I don't know if it's over or not.oh, and chainsaw is gone. irony?
I would just like to post how incredibly in love with my wife I am, I realize everyday that I love her more than I did the day before, and it's a wonderful feeling, and now if you read my diary entry you will see that I am dying inside right now for having hurt her. It's a dangerous thing love, it makes you feel greater than great, but when something goes wrong it hurts like hell.
hey, uh i want a chain saw....
are you trying to turn me on again? :)
Does your wife ever wander on to the Diner? If she's still hurt over the out-of-town thing and then reads you writing about another woman like that, she may be taking a chain saw to YOU.Just a friendly hint :)
No she doesn't Cinn, she is almost never online, and besides she knows I got nothing but love for all women, especially those I've known for like 8 years, and that includes Limey, which is kind of scary to think, 8 YEARS wow!
she never finds out she's being referred to on the internet as "the chain saw girl" ... I think that would be a little too much.In case any of you were wondering. Things are still silly, but I'm not trying to crawl out of my skin anymore. I had forgotten about my old trick of not sleeping and working out a lot to keep my mind unfocused. She's sick and I was almost silly enough to bring her chicken soup, but I decided I'm not that nice. BLVD- if you're not smiling at that somethings wrong with you.
I'm actually trying to make more of an effort to get out and meet people these days. I'm still struggling a lot with how i've been perceived (or least how I think I've been perceived) all my life. I've either been a geek or annoying or creepy for a long time, and I need to move beyond those things, but I've been told I don't make very good first impressions. For those of you who have met me, can you give me some honest feedback on your first impression of me please? I'm NOT fishing for compliments, I'm really trying to change how I approach new people. Also, if your opinion changed once you got to know me, how can i make better first impressions?I know this is a really awkward way to do this, but the people on the Diner, as a group, are the people who know me best and are still in my life, so thanks.
i feel like a jerk for not meeting you chris. I feel like a jerk for lying to my ex and then lying to the guy i'm seeing now. I feel like a jerk for not knowing what to do. My ex loves me, he says, wants me to see him no matter what...even though i have been with someone else. The guy i'm with now...i really like him and hurting people has never been anything i'm good at. Do I forego the future to live in the present. or pass up the present for my possible future. I know the guy i'm with now will not be with me forever. I know we won't settle down together. but with my ex we were this close, we were shacked and on our way...But he's left me...twice now. I just don't know what the hell i am doing.
you know, things always seen a lot cooler when they're unattainable...like that one girl that you just can't have. I think that if you got back to gether with him instantcofi, especially after he's left you twice, he'll stop feeling it. i mean, i don't know, who knows?
don't get back with him Em. if he couldn't see how wonderful you are 2x and stick with you, he's no good. seriously. there are plenty of guys who will not jerk you around like that. well, maybe not plenty, but they're out there.
Even though I really don't know anybody on this board accept through computer conversation...I agree that past flames don't deserve a second chance. For example, I've been dumped twice in my life. A year after I was dumped by I still felt some pain and still wanted to be with them. But now, 6 years down the road, I don't want anything to do with them. Being the prick that I sometimes can be...I recite the following in my head whenever I think of them:"Yeah...they just didn't deserve me"
As arrogant as that seems, it helps a lot. Just don't say it out loud. Never go back to an old girlfriend or boyfriend. They fucked up...too damn bad for them. A person can fuck up a car, a person can fuck up a test, just don't let THAT person fuck with you.
Sorry for being harsh.
And to Scinatfilm....if I knew you I would give you my honest impression....hence...one of drawbacks of not knowing anyone on the diner.
don't do it. I broke up/got back with my ex--the most recent ex, and the worst, most demoralizing relationship that's ever existed, i'm sure of it--about five times before an alarm went off in my head--we wouldn't be breaking up all the time if there weren't serious problems to begin with. i know every situation is unique, and i don't know anything about yours, but i'd go with J. on this one (and he DOES know you!). from what you wrote on the here about that guy, he sounds like someone to be wary of. there are lots of awesome guys out there who won't cause you to always question, doubt, and be uneasy about everything.oh yeah...and the unattainability thing is always a major factor. once you get back together you'll be like, "what did i want with this guy, anyway?"
i certainly don't hold it against you for not meeting me. next time.As for the guys, DON'T, DON'T DON'T get back with your ex, especially if you've broken up twice. and if you don't think you'll be with the guy you're seeing now forever, why are you wasting your time with him? it will be much better off in the long run, and you're closing off your options for when the right guy comes along if you string somebody along because he makes you feel good. Sorry to sound so harsh, but i've seen way too many people waste too much time and energy not being happy in a relationship, just because they like being in a relationship. but i do understand that sometimes you need to be in a casual realtionship too. just be careful. i'd hate for you to get hurt.
thanks ya'll...still haven't figured it all out, but its coming to me.
my buddy at work, Cori, saw a pic of you, she thinks you are a "good looking cat", matter of fact her exact words were, "hook it up" and she's way cooler than that shitty broad you're obsessed with...so whaddya say?
i'd meet her.
awesome, i'll call you when we can figure something out.
am i shallow for wondering what she looks like?
...on why you're meeting her.
well, cause emily said she wanted to meet me. and she said she was cool. i'd meet her regardless of how she looked. but i was curious.
curiousity doesn't necessarily mean shallowness. If anything in your case bags, it might just mean honesty.
im curious as to what she's like too.
the mystery woman wanted to meet you based on YOUR photo...
you're not shallow at all. Chester has a good point. I had seen a picture of Hernando before I met him, and I thought he was good-looking. But he had never seen me. So I thought he was attractive, but then worried about what he'd think of me. Not that he's shallow, not at all, nor am I, but it's just human nature. So really, you kind of have the advantage here, because she HAS seen you, and thinks you're attractive. Now it's up to what you think of her and what the chemistry is. And I've always thought that you're cute!Go get 'em, Tiger. Sweriously, awesome. I hope it works out.
is that pictures never tell the whole story. We've all seen pictures of people who looked attractive and then we met them and their personalities made them unattractive and vice versa. Pictures can be very deceiving.
can I just say too much time on all of your hands. She's a red head. She's taller then me, but not by much...I dunno what else to say. She's really super funny though. And smart, she likes blue grass and appalachia...or you knwo that place spelled something like that...So anyhow, she's a bit younger though she just turned 21 liek 2 months ago. anyhow...I'm thinking some time next week...maybe a trip to the wood? Or you could come to carol's...I dunno...
sounds fun. call me and let me know.
whatever the outcome!
Apple ate ya.
Go for it, Jeremy.
I think it shoudl be said that she actually did not want to meet him based on the photo. But because of the way he sang "You, Shook Me all Night Long". Yes I played it for her, then she asked how he looked then all this rigamoroll began
that's even cooler! ok, so everybody knows about it now, but whatever. no pressure. i'll come and have a good time, whatever happens. i trust your instincts on this one, em.
A friend of mine from work has agreed to go on a date with you from a description of your looks and musical tastes alone. Email me at hernandoinchicago@hotmail.com for some pics of her.
you should get on that if you're interested, cause Hernando only has four more days left at work in Chicago...I'm not sure who he's talking about, though I think I have an idea. And she sounds really cool.I feel like a reject being a matchmaker, but Jeremy is one of the coolest people I know...so I'm looking out for my peeps. Hey, if Hernando & I were as lucky as we are in such a random way (when I wasn't even looking to meet someone--far from it), I can't help think that everyone could be. You are a man of the dice, or cards rather, so Lady Luck smiles upon you, Baggins...
...'lucky in cards, unlucky in love...' or something like that.anyway, sure, i'll meet her. this kinda thing makes me nervous as hell, but whatever. that's a good nervous, right? no pressure. i'm cool. no pressure. i'm cool. no pressure...
you have it going on, wags. if all else fails [which i'm sure it won't] you can always rely on an important talent that you have-one which would wow any woman- just show her how you can play sweet child o' mine on the air guitar, and she will certainly be smitten/ no doubt about it, dear jeremy.
maybe. not all the ladies dig it, though. i can tell you that.
you keep this up Wags and you'll have more ladies than you can shake a stick at. Well maybe if it's a big stick, because if you think about it if it's a small stick you can shake one of those A LOT of times before you even start to get tired... ok never mind!
i should put this stuff here....I guess. Is this all bullshit? "you said to me, "when i graduate... can we have babies?" and i didn't have to think about it. i said yes. and for the first time in my life, i really thought... yeah... i want to have babies with this girl. i want to be with her forever." How do I say no to that...even if I don't know what I want....
I'm a little confused.
there is but I would have to put down his entire emial in here, and that doesn't seem very nice thing to do . I said those words to him...I asked him if we could have babies. He said yes.
...way back when? Is this the guy who left you twice? Or is this a different person?
just a few days ago, ha...I haven't been trying hard to fend him off. and this is my ex, in iowa who left me twice.
Don't have babies with someone you can't trust to stick around, much less be a real dad.
i know this. it was a moment of weakness. it just hurts me to know that I am upsetting him. I now I could fix it all by being with him, and I coudl make him happy. and then maybe he really woudl be able to make me happy. this just all feels so silly today, with the sun out, I feel exposed, like this all could have been so simple. But drew it out and now I'm embaressed.
Sometimes I think it's dumb that our brains and our hearts are in the same body. They don't seem to function very well together.Instant: I'm praying for you.
...because it would make them happy when you know it wouldn't make you happy -- or even when you don't know whether or not it would make you happy -- is a recipe for abject misery.
JT. I have been on both sides of the coin, and neither are pretty.
That you're not really going to love someone the way they should be loved if you don't want to be there. If you're doing it out of guilt, or as a favor, it's not what they really want, or need. And if they're satisfied with that, then they're really just taking advantage of you and not confronting their own problems. Like JT said -- abject misery.
But at least butt sex is legal.
the pasty white men would be proud.
or is that quickly degrading...
I wasn't making a commentary on the ruling, which I think is probably good, but on the fact that I doubt the framers ever considered that the constitution would be used to rule on that particular issue. ANyway, back to the romantic pining.
When I read Jeremy's reply to Chris's post a couple days ago I laughed. It was funny, and it was just enough out of Jeremy's character to strike me as extra humorous... However, I've been thinking about it, and I disagree with that advice and will now explain why.
<insert drumroll & trumpets>
A Mini Romantic Manifesto.
At first, the advice made perfect sense to me. When people meet, there is a natural tendency for both parties to categorize one another. This categorizing is simply a way that all of us use in an attempt to give order to the world. In a new relationship, the categories generally include potential friend, potential love, potential acquaintance, potential stranger, and potential enemy; and it is generally only at the very beginning of a relationship that we allow these lines to blur. For example, when you are introduced to someone you may unconciously think, "This person has the potential to be my friend or they could just end up as an acquaitance. I'll have to see." And, by the "I'll have to see," you mean that the rates of and quality of conversations and interactions had within a short time period (2 weeks?) will determine how you categorize that person for the duration of your relationship. Concession- I am not claiming that there are not exceptions to this rule, but that as a general thing, I think that the start of a relationship is the determining factor of where that will go.That said, Jer's advice makes perfect sense because you would want to distinguish yourself as a potential love early in a relationship lest you be relegated to the friend category for all time.
But, after more thought, I determined that though taking such a leap early in a relationship would establish you as a potential love and keep you safe from the "friend" association, it would also greatly reduce the possibility that you could ever truly establish a friendship with the other party. And, if, as I assume, the other party is worthy of being a potential love, they are also worthy of being a friend- something great might be lost... My conclusion is that the best course of action is to allow potential friendship to take precedence over potential love because a friendship that evolves into love (the aforementioned exception) is generally a longer and healthier love (See M. Scott Peck The Road Less Traveled) and a friendship that remains a friendship is always worth having.
The End
Of course, I'm still single....
Some of my best friends these days would (under most circumstances) be considered former loves. Maybe I'm just different (I've been called that and worse, often), but the order doesn't seem to matter to me much. I kinda agree with Baggs suggestion.Then again, also single.
Just on the note that we are all looking for love, and being relegated to the friend category for a person that you develop love for but they don't really sucks big time, and then are you really that person's friend or rather someone who loves said person and is only staying around hoping that the friendship will develop in something deeper? I'm not saying you aren't friends, just that you are a friend with an alterior motive, and that's not an open honest relationship, so how good a friend are you? Then again me and my wife were friends before we started dating, but I think I was always attracted to her, and she was attracted enough to me to try out dating, apparently I'm not that hideous. So I say go for the dating early and don't leave it open, besides it only gets harder to ask the person out.
I think that too many people take "being asked out" too seriously -- I think that Chris should be able to ask someone out, and have that mean, I think you're interesting and might be interested in a relationship with you, let's hang out and see what we think. Nobody has anything to lose, and if you hit it off, it could be something beautiful. If you "go out" and you like each other, but no sparks, there's not only nothing lost, but now you have healthy grounds for a friendship, unless either of you was particularly unpleasant. I think that people make such a big deal out of asking someone out (for a lot of reasons, and I certainly am guilty of that) that the act of going on a date with someone becomes this BIG THING that is so weighty and crushing that nobody can have a good time unless you are totally excited about each other, which often doesn't even develop for a while. So I say, go out! Have fun! Don't take it so seriously. Of course, I will never have to take my own advice, so feel free to flush it down the crapper if you want. Just don't take it so seriously until there's something worth being serious about, friendship OR love.
You're right, Peter, about the whole dating is overblown thing... People should be able to date casually. (Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the world I live in. In my world, everything is overblown.)
i agree with pedro here.originally, my advice above was serious. just knowing that i have always waited too long and it has had directly negative consequences on my chances of anything more than friends.
it seems to me that if you ask her out, but don't put too much pressure on the situation, that is something that a. she can handle and b. still lets her know you are serious.
i am still single, but that i attribute to years of following completely opposite advice to this, so...
that was me, baggins, posting above... apprently i can't log out kelsy on this confounded laptop...
...is there something we don't know, barefoot?
You have to walk carefully in the beginning of love; the running across fields into your lover's arms can only come later when you're sure they won't laugh if you trip. ~Jonathan Carroll, "Outside the Dog Museum"When love is not madness, it is not love. ~Pedro Calderon de la Barca
Just because somebody doesn't love you the way you want them to, doesn't mean they don't love you with all they have. ~Author Unknown
You don't love a woman because she is beautiful, she is beautiful because you love her. ~Author Unknown
Hate leaves ugly scars, love leaves beautiful ones. ~Mignon McLaughlin, The Second Neurotic's Notebook, 1966
Love one another and you will be happy. It's as simple and as difficult as that. ~Michael Leunig
It's so easy to fall in love but hard to find someone who will catch you. ~Author Unknown
We waste time looking for the perfect lover, instead of creating the perfect love. ~Tom Robbins
Love is a form of codependence based on passion... but what else do we got?
but I always read Richard Brautigan's "It's Raining in Love" whenever I feel all crushy... It makes me laugh and adds a little perspective (I hope).
I don't know what it is,
but I distrust myself
when I start to like a girl
a lot.
It makes me nervous.
I don't say the right things
or perhaps I start
to examine,
evaluate,
compute
what I am saying.
If I say, "Do you think it's going to rain?"
and she says, "I don't know,"
I start thinking : Does she really like me?
In other words
I get a little creepy.
A friend of mine once said,
"It's twenty times better to be friends
with someone
than it is to be in love with them."
I think he's right and besides,
it's raining somewhere, programming flowers
and keeping snails happy.
That's all taken care of.
BUT
if a girl likes me a lot
and starts getting real nervous
and suddenly begins asking me funny questions
and looks sad if I give the wrong answers
and she says things like,
"Do you think it's going to rain?"
and I say, "It beats me,"
and she says, "Oh,"
and looks a little sad
at the clear blue California sky,
I think : Thank God, it's you, baby, this time
instead of me.
.. I'd like to take credit for introducing you to Brautigan's work, BLVD.I used to laugh at him for being so pathetic. He has a story about obsessing about a single black hair he finds in his place from a girl that he's still in love with, who no longer loves him. I wish still I didn't understand his obsession, but it's nice to know there are others as impetuous, maybe moreso, than I.
What's something cheap you can do with her? Does she play board/card games? What about renting a movie. Anything interesting happening out in the burbs that might be cheap and/or free?
there's very little to do out here at all, let alone that's cheap and or free.
there is little to do that's not ordinary. how many movies can you see? i've seen 2 with her already (not solo, and certainly not 'dates') also, i see her often, and we do a lot of things that are cheap, like playing cards and stuff at her house, or watching movies or carving pumpkins. she came to the Fire Theft show with me a couple weeks ago, as my guest (phil met her briefly).also, to me, i want to treat her right. playing games and watching movies is fine. but for a First Date i'd like to be classy, show here a good time. not to say i want to spend $$$$ on her, but i think it's a pretty lame first date to say 'come over to my house and we'll watch Spiderman'.
besides, she already came over to my house and watched Spiderman. and that's part of the problem. we hang out socially. aside from our bible study group, i see her at least once during the week (which is fairly regular considering she's in nursing school and works). i want a Date to be separated from 'hanging out with your buddy'. know what i mean?
that's the problem.
yes, it's the burbs, but that doesn't mean there isn't a damn thing to do. you just have to do a little research and be creative. here to help is: burb-a-licious me.ask her to get coffee. she will know this is a date. it's cheap and gives plenty of time to talk and get to know each other one-on-one. don't go to a chain coffee shop, find an independently owned place that's a little romantic. use your yellow pages.
get ice cream. in wheaton there's the best little coffee shop ever. it's called tate's ice cream and all their yummy stuff is homemade. and it's got an old-fashioned ice cream store decor. mix either of the two options above with one of the below options:
take a walk in a nearby park. this is one benefit of living in the suburbs. parks are plentiful, safe, and quite lovely.
riverwalk. naperville usually is pretty lame, but they do have coffee shops and ice cream stores all along the riverwalk.
morton arboretum. seven dollars to park. the prime season is kind of over, but it's still really pretty, especially the further in you go. bring a little picnic lunch or snacks.
go for a bike ride. it's still pretty nice there, right? pick her up on your bike, leisurely make your way towards a restaurant or coffee house or park.
and no more excuses, dammit.
for a pinic out where you live?
thanks for the ideas kels. those are good ideas. it is kinda cold for outdoor stuff, but i think it could work anyway, on the right day. yeah, no excuses. ok. i'm just nervous. why? why is it so overwhelming for me? coffee/ice cream is good. she will know it's a date? you're SURE? i mean, i like to be direct, i guess. at least ideally. so in my opinion, i think i should say, 'will you go on a date with me?' but is that necessary? if i say 'wanna go get some ice cream and coffee?' is she gonna realize it's a date? i've only gone out with her once just me and her. we were gonna go on the riverwalk, actually, but had a hard time finding parking (even in the free garage) and ended up going and shooting pool (at her suggestion). so was she thinking that was a date? i mentioned that i'd like to spend time with people from our small group during the week, you know. make connections, that sorta thing. she said how about friday, i picked her up, we went out. we went to Borders and got coffee, walked around a little bit. i showed her some cool music there, she made me pick The Beach Boys over Bell & Sebastian (which i think is the better choice, though B&S ain't bad). we drove around, decided against the movies that were playing, and decided to shoot pool. anyway, that was a while back. i kinda hope she isn't thinking i didn't have a good time, and didn't want to ask her out again. but that could be the case. whatever the case, i think it needs to be soon.i just really don't know how to go about all this. i mean, i overanalyze everything. i think about the best time to ask her, blah blah blah. and i fear the awkwardness if she A) says she's not interested and B) if it doesn't go well. (i fear A more than B).
ok. it will be soon. i swear.
baggins, you rock too much for A to happen
thanks. i appreciate that.
Take her to a haunted house? Tiz the season and they're usually pretty cheap.
If she likes you and you like her it doesn't matter what you do, trust me I ended up married to a girl that way. If you are totally desperate and need it I'll lend you a little cash, I know you'd be good for it. However, I agree with Kels that you don't need it. The riverwalk is nice, try it again, and then go to Cold Stone Creamer (sure it's a chain, but it kicks ass!) Or you could go to the Arbor Vitae cafe right there on whatever street that is that goes past the river (Washington?). Meagan just piped up with go to Navy Pier, walk around, and spend $4 on the ferris wheel, but dress warm for it! :) It takes like an hour for it to go all the way around. Or, tale her in for a cheap dinner, and then go to To Much Light Makes the Baby Go Blind, I bet you could get away with that date for like $40-50. That has been my standard first date since high school. And if it goes well you can go out for coffee later. Actually I've had that date last until 9 a.m. the next day, because after a fun play and some coffee there's plenty of energy to be burnt off. But I digress, I say ask now, figure out what later! Ask her on a date, and then figure out what to do, it's easier when you ahve your mind off of the asking part.
She'll know. Coffee is sort of a universal first date trend. It's obvious but safe for both parties. Plus, there's always the vibe that separates a date from a nondate- trust me you'll give it off without even trying when you ask.
As per was the last time a date, that's a gray area cause you opened yourself up to everyone in the group and she responded. But, it was definately a half a date and if you ask her to do anything just the two of you now it's going to be an official date, meaning both parties will be thinking about it in the same way.
Side note- I went to coffee with a guy last week, trying to pretend that he hadn't really been giving off the "date" vibe... (Free advice-Lying to yourself is stupid. Trust your gut.) I really really am not interested in him, and I hope he never asks me to coffee again.
"Or, take her in for a cheap dinner, and then go to To Much Light Makes the Baby Go Blind, I bet you could get away with that date for like $40-50."that's what i was thinking of doing.
that she knows it's a date, say something along these lines: "i was thinking we could go out for dinner friday and then see a play afterwards. would you be interested?"saying 'go out' will do it. making sure she knows you mean you and her and not anyone else from your church will be a good move. being confident enough that she IS interested that you ask straight out if she is makes a great impression.
my new roommate asked me last night if i am a romantic. i told her that i don't think i am. how do you know?
Especially because people use the word differently. Some people use it to mean idealist, as in the phrase hopeless romantic. These are the people who believe that love conquers all, and a sufficiently motivated couple can overcome any adversity.Some people use romantic to mean sentimental. Others use it to mean non-sexual.
I am definitely not a hopeless romantic. I believe that randomness enters into the suitability of any relationship, and indeed, that that is part of the joy in a successful one.
I am sentimental, though.
Are you not any of these things?
a romantic as a person who likes candlelit dinners and wine and walks on the beach or running through fields of wheat and all those things vs. someone who is totally excited about spending time with their s.o. but just doesn't care for those odd things that have become human love cliches?Can a sufficiently motivated couple overcome any adversity? I think that's a very interesting question. Is that motivated in the sense of personal motivation, like, "I will be a millionaire by age 30?" Or motivation in the sense of "I am so completely in love with you (not of my own doing) that I will do anything it takes to make this relationship work?"
I think that personal, "nose to the grindstone" motivation is almost always not enough to make a relationship work. It might keep people together, but it won't necessarily make them happy. But I do think that if a couple truly loves one another and is willing to make the sacrifices necessary, that they can overcome any adversity. Sometimes the trick is in realizing the sacrifices that need to be made, and then swallowing your pride in order to do it. But if both sides are equally willing to do that... that sounds like a good deal to me.
But maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic.
I meant both types of motivation. It doesn't matter how dedicated a couple is; some incompatibilities cannot be overcome without sacrificing so much that one or the other feels resentment. If one spouse wants a child, and the other doesn't, and they think they can overcome this fundamental and obvious conflict by thinking "We're in love, we'll work it out," then they are deluding themselves, and this would be an example of what I mean by love not necessarily conquering all. You have to start with fundamental cokmpatibliity. After that, THEN dedication will make the relationship work -- whether you're a hopeless romantic or not.
And I definitely see your point, and admit that I hadn't considered it that way. The child thing is a good example, because it's pretty common, I think, and completely realistic. But there are also examples of couples who, because of their love, weathered that same storm.For the sake of argument, doesn't it mean that if such a conflict ended a relationship, then having a child was more important to that person than their love for the other person? I realize that's an incredibly simplistic description which glosses over the indescribable heartache, but that part is possibly indescribable, so I'm certainly not going to try.
So maybe I would have to ammend my position that your "love" (which obviously is more dedication and abiding commitment than attraction, but who can define love?) has to ultimately be a higher priority than any of your own desires. (And I guess, hope that the other person is as committed to sacrificing to you.)
Lastly though, please don't think that I don't think that compatibility plays into it, because I think it does (I've certainly burned many long hours obsessing about compatibility... and I'm not talking about computers). I think a lot of people convince themselves that they are compatible, or convince themselves that they love another person enough to overcome their incompatibilities (not to mention outright flaws), when in reality they don't. I think that sometimes people have needs which are so deep that maybe they can't be transcended by human love alone... and it would be dangerous to not listen to those internal urgings.
I'm also not sure if you can always know ahead of time, and for me, faith in God is a big part about believing that your needs will be met in their time.
I'm also uncomfortable in being so frank about this, because I'm a punk kid who's starry eyed and getting married in n months and almost everyone here on this bulletin board can personally relate to this discussion in one painful way or another. So I apologize (to anyone) if my idealism is annoying, hurtful, or infuriating (or funny).
i do like walks on the beach. but i would like them if i were alone or with friends, as well as an s.o. i like wine but again, anywhere anytime. i don't really like candlelit dinners, but i like to eat good food. flowers are nice, but i just like them being around, not necessarily stemming[ahem]from a romantic gesture. in other words, i'd buy them for myself or appreciate them if a roommate got flowers.i agree with jt's last post. i don't think that simply because two people are in love, even though they have completely contrasting needs and desires or even just a few very necessary ones, that things will eventually straighten out and fly right. if you've set aside desires very crucial to who you are and your own happiness, resentment and anger or bitterness will crop up.
as far as being sentimental, what are the boundaries for that? probably most of us are sentimental about our childhoods, maybe about our families... what would you say the definition of sentimental is? i consulted merriam-webster: 1 a : marked or governed by feeling, sensibility, or emotional idealism, b : resulting from feeling rather than reason or thought
yeah, i have some of that regarding certain things.
i'm kind of a dreamer, does that push me one way or another?
so, what am i? maybe i'm a practical romantic. this seems to compromise the essence of romanticism.
it may very well be that a person who very much wants children wants very much to share that with the person he or she is in love with. i can't imagine that would be an easy decision: child or the person i love who doesn't want a child? some people have imagined their lives so firmly one way, or been completely affected by certain happenings in their lives that they do, on some level, need something specific. ultimately i'm sure those people want to share that specific thing with the person they love. but sometimes that can be the worst decision two people make: to compromise something very essential to their beings to be together.as an example: let's say there's a man who had a very poor relationship with his parents and has always thought that he would do a better job with his own kids and this became ingrained in his being: improving on the situation he himself was in. he meets and falls in love with a career woman who doesn't want kids. she doesn't even like kids and she's very driven within her field of employment. they may very much be in love, and would like to share this important aspect of who they each are, but if they do one or the other will have to change or accept defeat in a sense.
pedro, you are not a starry-eyed punk kid. your perspective is just as essential to the discussion as anyone else's.
I definitely agree with what you've just said. I guess what's important to me is to recognize that "love" could conquer that situation, although it could not be in a way that satisfies both criteria. While there are lots of people who fall apart or part ways over this or other big issues, there are still people who do manage to succeed in spite of them. All this really says though, is that at a certain level I agree with you and JT, because there should compatibility at a certain level, where your relationship doesn't conflict with your true needs. Sometimes this means you find out you didn't really need your needs, and sometimes it means that you find out you had needs you didn't know about. Sometimes you walk away from a situation because you can see the writing on the wall, and don't want to test and/or torture yourself. But regardless, at rock bottom, I don't think that it is a given that that conflict of legitimate needs means inevitable failure for the relationship.
I think the whole question regarding whether or not couples can overcome obstacles through mutual motivation and dedication can be answered better by defining the nature of their love. Are the partners in the relationship solely from the desire of increasing/improving individual happiness or is their primary desire the spiritual growth of the other? (I use spiritual growth here rather than happiness, because that is the word used by Peck in The Road Less Traveled which I may have cited on her before... so be it. It's the only book I've ever read that examines this specific issues.) It's a hard question, and, honestly, the partners, if living unexamined lives, may not know their motivation for being in a relationship in the first place. But, if both partners are concerned with spiritual growth, theirs and their partner's, then I believe they can overcome any adversity. The reason being, that they'd have put enough thought into the relationship from the beginning that a big question, for example babies, would have been hashed over in the early stages.... Maybe, I'm being overly simplistic (what can I say, I'm a romantic ;) but physical attraction is a biological imperative meant to help us propogate- no one truly falls in love (not lust) without using their minds somewhat.
wasn't this originally a discussion about the word 'romantic'? usually it refers to unrealistic idealism, often as it relates to sexuality. the 'hopeless romantic' i guess is one that refuses to concede that the ideal is unrealistic and just thrashes about in 'less than ideal' situations, as opposed to one who can compromise and eventually finds happiness."you're not perfect. she's not perfect. what matters is that you're perfect for each other." - Robin Williams in Good Will Hunting
Pedro:
No worries about stepping on my toes. I have no problem with people who have different views than I do, but in this case I don't even think our views are different. We just use some words a bit differently.There might be examples of couples who weather the storm of disagreement over whether to have children. Those examples would only be theoretical to me, because I don't personally know any. However, I do know of couples who had disagreements over children and were not able to overcome it, and wound up unhappy or divorced or both.
You asked: "For the sake of argument, doesn't it mean that if such a conflict ended a relationship, then having a child was more important to that person than their love for the other person?"
No, I think it's more like what you said later in your posting, about people convincing themselves they are compatible when they know, deep down and on an instinctual level, that they are not. Some desires are such elemental components of one's personality that they cannot be supplanted without major resentment building up, and that resentment will, sooner or later, find release.
I think the problem with people who believe that love conquers all is that they are willing to try to sacrifice critical parts of themselves to prove the point.
You're right that you can't KNOW ahead of time what relationships will work, but you can be pretty darn sure things will work if you start with two things: a basic understanding of each other's personality, and the knowledge that successful relationships take a lot of work. The problem with idealists is that they often don't know the latter, and ignore the former. Doesn't sound like you fall into this trap though.
I understand your hesitation to be open about the subject. I can relate, because my attitudes toward love and romance are way too "left brained" for some people, who think I've taken all the fun and excitement out of it. This couldn't be more untrue. I admit I enjoy analyzing love and theorizing about why it works the way it does, but I also enjoy getting carried along for the ride. It just so happens that I get just as much excitement out of that ride when I know how it works.
barefoot:
More importantly, do -you- consider yourself romantic? Do you like the idea of doing things just becaues your mate likes them, and for no other reason? Some people think that is romantic. There are as many shades of romantic as there are people, so while I *could* categorize you, it would be based on my mindset rather than yours.By the way, I am *immsnesely* amused by your term practical romantic. That's how I think of myself. And no, I don't think it compromises anything. As I said, knowing how things work doesn't mean you enjoy them less. After all, I would never get on a roller coaster unless I knew it was safe. :)
i am romantic in that i just want someone to spend the rest of my life with. someone who can understand me, and challenge me, and love me when i do something dumb. and somebody who i can challenge, and understand, and love when they do something dumb. somebody worth committing to and making sacrifices for. that's a simple way of describing it, but... yeah.
I was/am hesitant not specifically because of you, JT, but because this is such a personal thing for people.Anyway, this is turning into the most interesting discussion the Diner's had in a long time.
I always thought romance was the silly things you do because of the feeling like squirrels running around in your chest, and the other person's happy reaction because of the feeling of chipmunks going awry in their chest? I didn't think it had anything to do with rationality.But, I've been wrong occasionally... and in love even less.
...of how everyone uses that word differently. See, here I was thinking that romance specifically referred to things that came after the squirrel-in-the-chest feeling started to fade.Just goes to show how different backgrounds can be.
If you keep talkin' so much, we might have to up your certification level!
that romance is all the things you do when you're in any stage of love and romantic is the mindset you have regarding matters of the heart no matter what your personal situation is.maybe not, though.
i don't really think i'm romantic. i'm almost surely not a hopeless romantic, but i'm no eternal pessimist either.
do we here at the diner think that love ought to be difficult, is in it's very nature hard and should never be anything other than difficult or that it should be something that comes very naturally and is only occasionally difficult?
oh, also i wanted to say that i think the distinction between love and relationship should be made in our discussion about romance. i'm not sure i'm the one to make it. here's my go at it: love can exist outside the realms of an agreed upon relationship, while a working relationship should probably take in parts of love, personality, companionship, compatibility, compromise, and all the other little things that get less recognition but are just as necessary. that is probably the discussion we were having above, at least.
did that paragraph make any sense?
my basic understanding of love is by no means on an expert's level. i have screwed up in it too many times, at least on the romantic level. love is something that can be experienced in many dimensions: for God, for your family, for your good friends, for your cat. and for your s.o. (i like the abbreviation, it's such a long term to type). i think "romantic love" comes into play when the distinction is made between the former people/things listed, and the s.o. factor. (c.s. lewis' "the four loves" is a great commentary on this). call me too starry-eyed, but i think most successful romantic relationships which end up lasting need to initially have that "squirrel in the chest" feeling. otherwise, i'd be dating my cat (that sounds really wrong, but i'm just trying to make a point). i think that the essence of romantic love, however--and here i contradict myself with the twitterpation factor--needs to be based in friendship. i'm sure most of you here have dated or even become seriously involved with somone you are very attracted to and infatuated with. then, a few weeks or months down the road, it inexplicably goes kaput. i feel that one of the main reasons this happens is due to a lack of commonality, shared interests, and life perspective. and i absolutely have to agree with blvd that issues like wanting children or major life goals is going to make or break a relationship--at least a long-term one--if you don't see eye to eye on these things from the get-go.that being said, friendship is essential. when i first started dating hernando i lost a bunch of weight (not because i wanted to be "thinner" but because i was too excited to eat), couldn't concentrate on anything, and was generally a wreck (in a good way), for a few months. i wouldn't trade those months for anything. it was wonderful, and exciting, but living that way is unhealthy to say the least. which is why it is fortunate that that whacked-out cloud nine feeling eventually fades, but is replaced by a deeper and much more fulfilling sense of inner peace and happiness. that, to me, is what true love and "romance" is. i guess i'm trying to say that the reason i felt those things were, beyond attraction, which was definitely there, was because i had found someone who i had so much fun with, who made me laugh until i had tears in my eyes, and also suppported me in everything. to find that your s.o. is also your best friend, and sees you through your worst times like any friend would, is essential. still, i think if that chemistry, the heart going pitter-pat thing is missing then you are missing out. i would have no problem if anyone wanted to dipute this, because i'm sure lots of life-long couples and marriages are successful without that initial element.
i'm talking in circles here, so i'll shut up. and pedro, you are by no means a young punk. you definitely know what real love is, and i'm very happy for you and alh. it's a rare thing to find. and baggins, speaking of LOVE starting from friendship, have you asked that girl out yet? please say you have.
"See, here I was thinking that romance specifically referred to things that came after the squirrel-in-the-chest feeling started to fade." - JT - Wouldn't know... I've never gotten past that stage. Usually it goes straight from squirrel running to squirrel chewing with a side of confusion.To contradict Cinn... The only serious (if they can be called even that) relationships I've ever had, started and ended in friendship. I believe friendship was the cause for the start and the end of both.
....with a failed marriage under my belt, but there are very good reasons for that, which have very little to do with romance, so not resonding to any one post here, i'll share my perspective.beyond the squirrels,etc. I believe love is a choice. I can choose to love or not love anyone in my life; my kids, my family, my friends, my s.o. (if I had one), or even myself for that matter. this means something very different for each of these relationships specifically because they are all individuals, but at the same time i can apply one basic principal to all, that is, availability. which in and of itself indicates limitations.
i was just thinking about this, and decide to post here and ask you.i think i mentioned before that *she* is only 20. she'll be 21 in january. for me, i have pretty much gotten over that difference. but sometimes i think about it, and i was just wondering how that whole thing has worked for you and alh. i mean, i realize that you're in a completely different stage in your relationship, so that might come to bear on your answer. but that's precisely why i'm asking you.
what are your thoughts?
hmmm. This is a little weird, because it acknowledges that people feel weird about this, either because they themselves feel weird, or because they think that other people will look poorly on it.I think it obviously really depends on the people involved -- some people born on the same day shouldn't date -- some people 20 years apart are perfect for each other. But there's a legitimate reason at some level for the stigma, because so often independence, maturity, wisdom, etc. grow with age, and it's generally easier for older people to take advantage of younger people (in myriad ways). So at first I guess I have to acknowledge the stigma -- acknowledge that I don't think it's either completely ridiculous or completely valid -- and then talk about my own feelings.When alh and i started dating, she was 19 and I was 22, which seems "weirder" to me somehow (than 25 and 21, or whatever you guys are), because now, anyway, 19 seems like a long time ago, and there was the whole college freshman and 5th year senior thing. On top of that weirdness was the fact that we met at camp when I was a counselor and she was a camper, and I definitely had a "crush" on her back then, although the result of that (and other factors) meant that we became friends (just friends).
For a long time, I felt awkward when talking to other people about our relationship because I was worried about what people would think, even though I personally didn't feel guilty or weird about the age difference, or the camp thing, but because I knew that some people would immediately jump to conclusions or judgements.
Anyway this is all backstory. I guess there are probably 3 major reasons why it worked for us, why it was natural, etc. I think the first thing, and this is kind of a "sunday school answer," but I think it has worked for us because God has brought us together because we're right for each other, maybe even "made for each other," depending on how much you think God plans those kind of things. A few years (literally, a few) doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things in the face of that kind of depth of connection. So there's the God thing, which, when I look at our friendship, history, and relationship, I can't deny. The age doesn't matter.
Then there's the fact that our relationship honestly grew from our friendship. I think it would be a little weird if I had thought, "she's cute, let's see if she'll date me" and then figured out if we could be friends. Not that that would necessarily be bad or wrong... it was just a much easier transition, and felt completely justifiable within my own conscience, because I wasn't just dating some cute younger girl because she was naive and would go out with me or something like that. In fact, there was a period (when I was in college, but before we were dating) where I would wonder to myself, "what would it be like to ask her out on a date?" And it just seemed so ridiculous and awkward that I couldn't imagine anything that was plausible, because our friendship was so natural and great. I think my point here is that we're really great together. We're not together because either of us "gets anything" from the age difference, because the age doesn't matter.
Along with that (and this is #3) -- one reason I think that both #1 and #2 are true is that alh is really mature, and in some ways, I am immature for my age, or maybe just a late bloomer (yeah, yeah, that's it... immature is such an ugly word), so even though there was an age difference, I don't think there was nearly as big of a maturity difference -- and that maturity difference was not uniform across both parties. She was, and is, more mature than I about certain things, and I guess sort of statistically speaking I'm probably more mature about other things than she is, but I honestly don't know what things those would be because I don't even think about it like that. To translate, we both have strengths and weaknesses, and that's how it should be, because the age doesn't matter.
I don't think it has ever mattered for us, because for every thing she did that I could have conceivably chalked up to age or lack of life experience (ha), she could have pointed out something that I did, and what would she have blamed that on?
I don't know if this answers your question. If you guys are good for each other, and you're compatible, and everything's on the table, and it's still all good, who cares about age.
Now that I've written this novel, I had a couple other thoughts. One thing that worked really well for us is that because we were not at the same school, even though I had graduated and got a job, she was still in school, and my relationship with her didn't really interfere much with her "college experience". Not that that would have meant one thing or another, but it definitely helped us, because it wasn't like our relationship was really putting either of us in some kind of odd social situation. I'm not saying (at all) that this would happen for you, because it sounds like you already do a lot of things together and have a lot of similar friends, etc. I'm just saying it because it was a big factor in making our relationship and our lives easier.
The other thing that comes to mind that is a consideration is that because our world operates on a time scale, the age difference has repercussions for things like schooling and education, and having a family, etc. If I was highly driven, or felt that I knew what I wanted to do, or was 4 years deep into a career, or desperately wanted to have all my kids before age 30 or something, it might be hard to pull up stakes and move somewhere else for alh to go to grad school or make family plans work with the chronology of my age. But the fact is, I'm not in any of those situations, so they aren't an issue. That's another one of those things in our relationship that makes certain potential issues (moving away, children timeline, grad school) non-issues for us. I guess that's part of the "maturity" thing, not in a mature/immature way, but just in a life kind of way.
Ok, I've written enough now. SOrry for rambling.
that helps me think about it in a good way. it's not really much of an issue. its just sometimes i run into a situation where i've had a considerably greater amount of experience with something due to age, and it always makes me think. also, it starts to make me question it when i think about things like that she was going into high school when i was a camp counselor like 7 years ago. but, i usually don't worry about it. i am learning to trust God and his plan for me. so if this is right, then it's right.but i don't want to jump the gun here. there's still a long way to go before right even enters into it.
... Jay is 12, yes 12, years older than I am. And I have never known anyone in my life with a happier marriage. Truly, it was God's plan for both of us.
If I didn't really answer your question, let me know. I just kind of ramble-responded to what you said... but if you have any specific question or anything, please let me know. Not that I'm some kind of expert or anything.I think I mentioned this, but one thing that I think is important if you guys do start dating long term, is that you make sure that both of you give her enough space to have her college time for friends and activities and life experiences... obviously, maybe it would work out that she didn't really want that, or whatever... but I think it's important to really make space for that, because I think it's valuable for her, which means it's valuable for you. And I think sometimes when people are "robbed" of their college years, or their "independent time," or whatever it is, they never learn those lessons for themselves, and either kind of stay stuck in that phase (the adult who never grows up), or they at some point resent your relationship for having gotten in the way of having those freedoms and experiences and whatnot.
I'm not at all saying that it's a given, or that you MUST do something someway or another... Maybe she doesn't need that time. but I think it's an important issue, and it's particularly applicable when one person has gone through those years and another person is still in them, because the person who is past those years doesn't necessarily think to (or make the sacrifices necessary to) let the other person have those things for themself. This is totally long term, but what happens when she finishes school, and you guys are talking about getting married? What if she wants to go off and do americorps, or short term missions, or just go live in a city, etc. I think it could be hard for the older person because they may be completely ready to get married, but the other person still has important independent things to do.
This is not some decision I made myself in our relationship, or some big sacrifice I made for the sake of our relationship -- we both really tried to just let alh's college experience be what it was, which was totally made 100% easier because we weren't in the same place. If I had been in Hanover, her college experience might have looked completely different... it would have been a lot harder. And we both tried to be open to where we would go after college -- it was not a given that she would come to Chicago -- I had to be open to going somewhere else. And although this was not a problem for me because I'm a slow moving professional bachelor, we needed to be careful that we didn't rush into getting married until we were really ready to make those decisions.
Again, none of this is a a prescription, nor do I see myself as some kind of expert about it... just throwing it out because it was a part of our experience.
it probably helps that you two guys are both big fuzzy teddy bears.
that does make the mate selection process easier.
OK, I'm new around here but am hoping some of you might be able to indulge &/or help me by listen to a wee bit of bellyaching...This entire life-without-Tony thing is terrible. It hasn't been very long -- just a week -- but I am just in a daze. I'm putting up this "I'm strong, I'm OK" front, but I'm not OK. At all. My brain is telling me that I will (eventually) be fine, but my innards are just not getting the message. One of my sweet friends thought she'd casually introduce me to a friend of hers tonight, and as soon as I met him I started sobbing. The poor guy probably thought I was a lunatic, and my friend felt like a real jerk. I think it was just too soon.
Does anyone have an idea how long I can expect to be like this? We were together for well over 2 years... I'm guessing I'm looking at several months, but the idea of hurting like this for another day is just overwhelming. This was my first devastating heartbreak; other guys I've dated were absolutely nothing in comparison to him. (Although in the end, he turned out to be a worm as well, and it makes me cry to say that.)
Also, any ideas about what might make it easier?
It sucks to say it but it's not going to get easier just yet - though it will over time. I think with my first big heartbreak it took about 2 months to really feel functional. After about 3 weeks the random sudden weeping went away, but it was still sad when I was confronted with things that reminded me too much. You could try to focus on how he was a worm and a jerk, but try not to let yourself become bitter. He's not worth it (nobody is) - the embittering of your soul I mean. It'll get easier, and eventually it'll seriously just be a memory that doesn't bring you much in the way of sadness.Did I mention that chocolate chip cookies help? Especially dunked in hot chocolate.
My first real heartbreak was painful indeed. I spent several days doing nothing but playing Nintendo; on at least one day I actually forgot to eat. Painful an experience as this was, it did teach me a thing or two about grief -- primarily that there is no timetable. The trick, I think, is to let yourself grieve as you need to, and when you start feeling that the grieving is interfering with your recovery, start adding fun things back into your life. That will make it easier. Over time, the pain will lose its edge, and you'll be able to function again. Hang in there. I think we can all feel your pain.
but Lara, you really will be okay. I know you, you're a strong woman, and there is much better in store. It sounds stupid and trite, but it's true. My last boyfriend and I were together for exactly a year and it was make-up/break-up all the time, and from what you alluded to earlier this relationship was similar. If say that he is a worm I believe you, and thus he hardly deserved you. Now you are open to meeting someone really awesome. Once it's finally over it's really heartbreaking, but closure is very empowering. Be sad, be mad, eat a bunch of Haagen-Dazs (hell, I did that last night and have no excuse). Allow yourself to wallow for about a week, and then don't focus on it. Believe it or not, before you know it, you'll go days without even thinking about him. Then you'll realize how much more happy you are when not dealing with a tempestuous, worm-infested relationship. You are a beautiful, intelligent person, and you deserve the best. Focus on your peace of mind and happiness will follow.
it's high time we get back in touch. My e-mail is mlledoyle AT hotmail. Drop me a line!
last week, i emailed *her* to see what she was up to Friday. she said had something at church later, and she got home from class at 2:30, but her afternoon and evening was free. we made plans, and i came by, and we decided to go see Matrix:Convolutions. i paid. i took her home, and stopped in to say hello to her parents, who are super cool.her dad told me i should borrow this sweet-ass Gibson Les Paul bass he picked up, and i could borrow it as long as i wanted until he found somebody to buy it. he practically begged me to take it home.
then i took off. she would have come to the NPU play with me last night, but she had a wedding to go to.
anyway, was that a DATE?
Sounds very date-ish to me, baggins.Thank you, Cinnamongirl, JT & Dex. I've got that song going through my head "Tiiiiiiiime is on my side, yes it is..." I'm very much looking forward to getting over that ass clown. Nah, I don't think I'm becoming bitter, I'm just very angry at him for LEADING ME ON FOR TWO YEARS. *pbbt* I learned all about the stages of grief when I got him through the death of his father this summer. (And yes, for the record, I'm also quite angry with him for putting me through all that for nothing.) But hey, at least I'm not wallowing today.
Anyway, you have all heard enough of my dramatics... thanks again for the kind words & thoughts!
you'll see that it was not for nothing, learning about the grieving process, sharing your compassion and love, etc. Relationships hurt because they change us. You know who you were before, you know who you were during, and now you've just gotta get comfortable to your new self (who couldn't possibly be the same as your before self). Lots of fear, discomfort, and doubt, maybe. Pain, certainly. But, I am sure that all the good you put into that relationship shaped you for the better.
Definately a date.
now that it's confirmed as a date, was she expecting anything from me?like was i supposed to kiss her or something? oh boy, i don't want to be a bad date.
thanks for reminding me of that, amy.i'm kinda confused about it all. grr.
just make the next such occasion more of a defined date, and then at the end of the night see how it goes, maybe go for a hug or something, I'd say that would be the best way to keep the ball rolling. But a good start dude!
we're past that point. it's not even awkward. it's assumed.
Go in for a french hug!...
...
i guess I don't know what that would be, and I don't want to think about it.
But that's a definite date yep. I wouldn't ever kiss someone because it was expected - but if you're past the hugs point, next time you watch a movie you could try cuddling up to her, either holding hands in the theater or have like a movie marathon on the couch at home and try cuddling up to her that way. You can test the waters without the lip contact if you're not comfortable with it yet.
i didn't think i would be nervous about such a thing. it's not like i don't want to kiss her. i just don't want to push it too far if she's not into me.
Don't worry about it. Que Sera, Sera. It will take care of itself. Just BE yourself. Better to take your time than to rush it. Don't rush it.
both Dex and pedro. overanalyzing and freaking out about it will just make you/being together feel awkward, and that's not the wonderful, laid-back baggins we know. it will all fall into place as it should; in the meantime, really get to know each on a one-on-one basis (since this did sound like a date for sure), and just enjoy each other's company.
and definitely go for the french hug, and when you figure out what it is, tell me.
updates forthcoming...
proposition for sex during the next conversation.but seriously. Just think, if youre together a year from now, the crazy intense-butterflies-in-stomach, should I/shouldn't I, what should I do?-thing will have been the best memories of em all. Even if it's nerve-wracking right now. And if youre not together a year from now, then whatevah. didnt make a lick of difference.
So, I went out with this guy last night, a blind date, and I was totally bored. So so bored. I think I have impossibly high standards and will be single forever... (or he may have just been boring)...
If a blind date goes well, that's great. If a blind date goes bad, you are OBLIGATED to not let it bother you in the least.
I have gone out on exactly two blind dates, and they were both unqualified train wrecks. If dates were traffic accidents, these would have required MediVac helicopters and left blood stains on the road. And it has nothing to do with having high standards, either. These were bad because they were awkward, unfiltered and shouldn't have happened to begin with.I agreewith Pedro -- you can't possibly judge anything by how well a blind date goes. Mine make me shiver, still, whenever I think about them.
Blvdgirl, I think most people see a person who is self-assured and happy with the direction life is going, with or without someone else, as the most attractive people around.
That's funny... I think I might have gone on a blind date to the MMW show the other night, however I wasn't really paying attention. Maybe it wasn't a date. Details details... it's funny how little i pay attention to these things.
for all you know now max, you very well might have a girlfriend. :)
a blind date at an MMW show...I'd be surprised if he even remembers what she looks like
fantastic trio of organ, bass, drums and they are all amazing musicians. Their shows are incredible and I'm pretty much awestruck whenever I see them.
I must sound incredibly strange to you all... BigJ- Ironically that's happened before. I've also heard about dates I went on that I really didn't think were dates at all. And Lukas, I think I saw her on the mountain today, (she's a snowboard coach) but I couldn't be sure. There's no waiting for friends on a powder day.MMW is amazing, Pedro, I think you'd really like them. Shall I put a couple CD's in the mail with your EBN video?
sure!I really liked the Whitley, Martin, & Wood album Perfect Day.
you said it in your diary entry, but I think I am in awe of your lifestyle, it sounds like it would be fun, maybe a little hectic, but fun.
Blind date guy called yesterday... twice. So, I called him back with every intention of being honest and saying "I'm not interested," but I chickened out and made light small talk and then got of the phone quickly, but not quick enough cause he asked me out for Friday (which is the only night this week that I don't have plans. I put off answering.... I've only made the situation worse now, damn it.
Amy's in a pickle. Just tell him that you came down with a sudden case of the "go away you boring retard," and leave it at that. :)
Tell him your husband got released from prison early & you'll be busy for the next few weeks.
how do you know this guy? is he someone you will see regularly at work or church? if not, you can kinda blow him off. if he is, maybe be a little more delicate.just be honest. he might be hurt, but he will respect you more than if you play games with his head and his heart.
I tried to call the guy and be honest and was completely relieved to get his machine... So today, I took the chicken's route and emailed. Whatever, he hardly knows me so I don't have to be brave for him. So, hopefully that's that.
The weird thing about this whole situation is that it just reinforced for me how absolutely content I am right now being single. Yeah, sometimes, I get lonely, but most of the time I am just thankful for my silence and my space. I have so many obligations already that require so much effort (good obligations, but tiring) that I don't need to make any more obligations for myself... I think I'll wait for God to throw a sledgehammar at my head before I think about dating again (this would be a positive-type of sledgehammar scenario)...
Thanks for all of the advice. I love you guys. And I really love knowing that my telling you that I am a loser and a chicken won't change the way you feel about me.
I don't think you are a loser or a chicken, Amy. You have way more cajones than I do, evidenced by the fact that you actually took a step to let him know where you stand. I have a history of letting things fizzle & making us both feel terrible.I also think it is way cool of you to be content being single. Solo can be really good (except when you get a big knot in the middle of your back and don't know anyone trustworthy enough to get rid of it for you).
since i haven't been online in a week...for those of you that met J@ackie, what did you think?
BTW, we cuddled during ROTK last night, and we kissed, ever so gently. so i guess you can call it official. (though i really need to see ROTK again, as my attention was severely divided...)
"ever so gently"
baggins, you were making me all sappy & stuff until the "ever so gently." I don't know why this amuses me so.Really though, that is so great. Like I said before, I love hearing about this! It's nice to know that we female-types aren't the only ones who get nervous & stuff.
My "rebound man" is still around. He works atrocious hours so I don't see him nearly as much as I'd like to (which is actually an excellent arrangement, as it forces me to maintain my own social life / schedule), but every time I see him I like him more.
"I don't see him nearly as much as I'd like to (which is actually an excellent arrangement, as it forces me to maintain my own social life / schedule), but every time I see him I like him more. "i feel the same about J. she has her own life, a job and other friends, etc. and it's good and healthy not to be together every second. but i sure do look forward to the times i am with her.
its pretty funny.
I laughed, Jer. And, I like that you're a sap.
laughed at the link, that is...not at you.
i don't mind. i laugh at myself all the time. i am such a sap sometimes. now i'm just nervous. i don't want to screw this one up. i feel like the hardest part is over, but i am still nervous.
and it's true too!!
I spent the ENTIRE day with J. And I did not get sick of him, not even a little. I didn't really even want him to leave. Happy news!
we gotta get our J's straight. we'll just call mine Jackie.
Pedro.. I have forgotten about the EBN tape and the MMW cds... My memory has returned. I'll work on it tomorrow... perhaps once my fingers go away from this keyboard.Baggs.. Warggle... remember to enjoy life. I'm glad for you both, Baggs, it's wonderful to hear you so smitten.
It has been a trying couple of days for me. I could trigger bizarre google searches with explinations. (no one wants that). 2 bits of wisdom. (no charge) 1. There is nothing more useless (depressing) than having lunch, or any date sounding meal, with a recent love. 2. Run. The quicker the better. 3. (consider it a bonus, $1 please) when you look into the eyes of someone you love, say out loud how lucky you feel. It might seem like it, but they can't read your mind and it will make the squirrels in your chest run like mad.
no rush -- it's a gift!
1 seems like good advice. 2 i don't get. and 3 is absolutely perfect advice. can i elaborate or improvise a little on that? because i have several times now. tonight in fact. man is she incredible.
For all you geeks out there: Stumbled across this banner ad in my morning surf (marketed as "SourceForge Personals"). Open Source dating? My guess is that if you're a member, and your girlfriend says you're a jerk, six random guys from around the world call her up and offer to fix the relationship. :-P
Question: Why would we drop everything to go on a date with our first love?I talked with a few of my friends this past weekend and about half said they would agree to go on the date whether they were currently dating somebody or not.
Can anybody shed light on this?
cause our first love is the big what if that haunts our memories and day dreams. It's the magic of if only... And, because most of us are removed enough in time and space from our first loves that the scenarios that we allow ourselves to entertain always tend to include great depth and happiness. Most of us do not imagine approaching that perfect guy or girl at the high school dance and have him/her respond by snubbing us or making fun. The first love feels safe and dazzling, and let's face it, we'd all love to rediscover in ourselves the innocence of those soul-mate eyes.
Considering the fact that I'm still reeling from the pain that AC caused me, going on another date with him is the last thing I should do. However, if he showed up at my office right now (or if I ran into him on the street, or whatever) I don't know that I would tell him to piss off.Maybe people would like another shot at their first love to see if they could get it right this time? Or for confirmation that all things work out for the best?
My first love came in 1994...in the beginning of my sophomore year in high school. We went out for about two months and then she dumped me. The next year, I asked her to the prom...and suprisingly she said yes...but she didn't want to further the relationship which again angered me. I graduated high school without saying much to her after that. I went off to college, and never really saw her again.A weird thing happened in 1999. She showed up to my brother's high school graduation ceremony when she really had no business being there. She stayed about 15 minutes...then left. She wore a dress and everything. It was just all too strange.
I think if I was to see her again...I wouldn't know what to do. I'm pretty sure I'd get clammy hands, an elevated heartbeat, and a flushed red face. I'd probably be a wreck.
quoting blvdgirl:
cause our first love is the big what if that haunts our memories and day dreams. It's the magic of if only...i think in my case the answer to that "what if" may eventually be "yes."
i see it a bit differently. past loves really only serve to point out how the present is better than anything could have been, even if its rough times right now. once things come to some sort of decision, and that decision is 'no' then all else fades to distant memory for me, and i move on. at least, that's how it's gone for me in the past.i feel kind of weird these days. the awkward part of my relationship with jackie is over. i'm comfortable around her, and she around me. we already know we like each other. now, its a matter of how do i stay myself and keep doing the positive things that further my life and keep my relationship with her fresh and rewarding? i guess it seems quick to have reached that point - then again, i really don't know what's normal in these situations. i just know myself well enough to know that if i get lazy and start taking things for granted, we'll quickly fall into a state of stagnance, which is the worst numbing place i could imagine.
anyway, the challenge of not falling into that is a good enough place to start, right?
I know of a few first loves that did well and were fortunate enough to be durable. But for most people, first loves are like first bicycles -- you use it to learn critical skills, but eventually you either outgrow it or realize that it wasn't really the right model to begin with. My first love was horrible for me in the long run. But she was a good training girlfriend. With my second, it was more a matter of timing: we were good for each other, but it was the wrong time for both of us. But even so, once I got over her, I never looked back and asked myself any "what if" questions. We're friends again now, but that was only possible after years of being out of touch and basically starting from scratch.
is definitely my first love. That's just how it's worked out for me. I've had a lot of crushes over the years, and my first big crush (who actually gave me the nickname "vinegar" from which...) I think would be fun to go out to dinner with and catch up. I'd want to do that mostly to see what she's really like, now with 13 years of maturity (mostly maturity anyway) on my side and security in love. How cool was she really? Who has she become? Infinite hours of pondering what was my misunderstanding and what was her changing over time? And hopefully I would learn to appreciate and hopefully be friends with someone who at one time I counted a very close friend.But there is absolutely no desire to leave now for then.
My first real love is my husband. I dated a lot of guys before him, well a lot being six or so, but nobody I *loved*.
well, actually i can honestly say i did "love" a few of them, and they loved me. i don't regret anything in the past. except perhaps my last and final ex who was, start to finish, a year-long train wreck, although it took me a while into it to realize that. there were some good relationships that i enjoyed very much for what they were, and i learned a lot from them. i was treated well by most of them and got to know some special people because of it. i also learned a lot abougt who and what i am, and what i needed in a person. but i think when true love...the person you want to spend the rest of your life with...comes along, everything else just pales in comparison. i am still friends with a few of my exes, and that just goes to show that there are no regrets. all that being said, i know i went through all i did and it led to me to hernando, who is the most wonderful thing/person that has ever happened to me, and the rest is history (and our future).
i feel like i say some pretty cheesy things on here (the diner, not just this entree) sometimes, about me & h., and i hope i don't come off sounding like a sap. i'm just very very happy and want to share it with the world, but i'm not a love struck idiot. i am, however, someone who has finally found something really awesome and i feel extremely blessed because of it. so excuse my occasional ramblings.
let me amend that last post. i AM a love-struck idiot, but not in an idiotic way. in the best way possible.
I like your ramblings.
i spent the night with one of my best friends on sunday. it makes me a little giddy just to think about it. i hope it leads to something, but i can honestly say i have no idea whether it will.
If you leave a message on a someone's machine (they gave you their number) how many days should it take for them to call you back? This one involves my friend, who called a girl this past Wednesday, and hasn't heard from her yet.
Keep in mind that he didn't call that number until the fourth day after she gave it to him. So...is she playing a waiting game in return? Women, help us on this one!!
Sorry, Coney. Maybe it really is a friend. That one was too easy, though. :)I really think this would vary on a case-by-case basis, depending on the two people involved, the way they met/what led up to the exchange of numbers, etc. I guess there's just no standard answer on this one. I can say speaking from personal experience that when someone I liked called me (ah, those free-wheelin' single days), I would usually call them back after about two days. Unless I was genuinely busy and didn't have the chance. I understand the whole waiting game thing and not wanting to look too eager, but I pretty much do what my heart and gut tell me (as anyone who knows how Hernando and I met will agree on). If your friend had waited four days to call HER, she very could be doing he same thing and making him sweat it out a little. Weds. will have been a week ago two days from now. It is nearing Thanksgiving and maybe she has travel plans/preparations going on, and really has been busy. I dunno...these things are complicated, but the bottom line is if she's truly interested she should get back to him within a week, max. Good luck!
No...it IS a friend...this dude hasn't had a date in forever...so he bombards me with emails at work asking me what he should do. Based on my lousy past relationships...I'm not the one to be giving advice...so it's off to the diner...
If someone gives you their phone number, you're supposed to call them? That explains so much!
People keep giving me MY number, but when I call it, I just get a busy signal!
on several occasions...the guy on the other line is such a DICK.
no matter how funny it is. The sad part is that my last post was only half a joke.I've often wondered why dating is such a bizarre game. I mean there are parts that are fun, but not really. I really think that the movie Swingers put us all back a few million years.
but it sure is funny.dating is a joke. at least the first part where you look and try to establish a longstanding connection. it's so ridiculous and has so much pressure put on it, and nobody seems to know how it's supposed to work.
but the established connection part is quite fun, especially when i have time to make it work.
can't wait for the marriage part.
...take your friends out to dinner! (you will probably marry one of them someday)
when i look back at the last year from age fifty, i hope that i'll be looking back at it with the person i've just spent it with. we never really started dating in the first place.... just sort of found that after a while we were, until we got to a point where the past was holding her back. i don't know whether to think of it as a break up or not, but here we are trying to go back to just being each other's best friend again.
you're the greatest.
it was a short-lived but useful exercise. if you saw me saturday night you saw her with me. everything is going to be ok.Cinnamongirl, thank you! it was good to see you at the show.
if the lovely lady by your side was her. Great to see you as well. I kept wanting to call you "Inkblot" so was biting my tongue--it's hard not to refer to Diner people by their Diner names, sometimes.
That none of you have that problem with me, although you might have to think twice to remember my first name . . .
GUNCH!!!!!!!!!!
ok. here's a quick take on my proposal to Jackie this afternoon.we had planned to have a nice picnic this afternoon after church. sunday is usually the day i get to spend time with her (although it gets quite cluttered up with studying and family stuff, as you can imagine). last sunday we didn't get much time together, and the week before was the week of finals, so we really hadn't had much time together recently on our days off. so i told her we should just go have a nice picnic, just the 2 of us.
i took her to the Morton Arboretum and I packed a picnic lunch for us (i let her bring the drinks) of sandwiches i made (hers had mayo and mustard like she likes them), chips and guacamole, the potato salad we both love, and the oatmeal cream pies from little debbie or hostess or whoever that we both love. we drove around the arboretum (if it had been warmer, we would have parked at the entrance and walked further...) and found a good place to park and walked a little ways back to a cool little spot we found. we spread out the blankets and sat and ate our lunch together.
then, we just cuddled and talked. i asked her to tell me a secret. she couldn't think of one. i told her to make something up. she said something goofy which i won't repeat because it will embarass her. and then she told me to tell her a secret. i said, 'ok. but you have to sit over here.' and she was like 'why? i'm fine right here' and i insisted and she finally sat up. i got down on my knees and i pulled out the ring and she started freaking out like 'what? what are you doing?' and i opened it up and said something like 'i just wanted to ask you if you will be my wife' (which was lamer than it could have been). she was like 'uh? huh? of course! what?' and we both started crying and she was hugging me and kissing me, and i was like 'don't you want to put it on?' and she was like 'oh! yeah!' and i put it on her finger. then she started crying and kissing me again. i was like 'arent you going to look at it?' and she was like 'oh! yeah!' and then she looked at it and she loved it and it fit her just right. then she kissed me some more and we talked some more.
then we went and told my family, and then went to her house and told her family. and there was much rejoicing.
Congrats!!!
Congratulations, Jeremy, to both of you.
Congrats to both of you. Mazel tov!
I'm all goosebumpy now! Congrats!!
I never got around to congratulating you. way to go dude!! may you have a long and blessed life together!
i am looking forward to it. we checked out a church today. looked pretty cool. and has the oldest pipe organ in DuPage county, to boot! (playable only by a trained organist, however...)
A vampire, but then you'd have to have an after-sundown wedding. Vampires work cheap, though; you don't want to cross the Old Lady Organist Union.
we looked at another church today. it looks pretty cool. and it's cheaper than anything we've seen so far. i hope we go with this one, since it's less than 5 minutes from my house, and i like the place.this is a big production, planning this wedding. i feel so overwhelmed with it all. i don't know what all needs to be done, and the urgency i *know* should be there just isn't, since i'm a last minute kinda guy. not to mention that details on flowers and colors don't really excite me, and it is all so ridiculously expensive that i can only laugh...
Congratulations Baggins and Jackie. Sorry this is so late. I've been away from computers for three months. You'll have to let me know when the wedding is. Nine 5 too to 1 two 0 nine ate 7.
happy anniversary!
Has it been a year already for you two?Happy anniversary!
It has been a year, if you can believe that... thanks for the congratulations.
fast year. seems like just the other day. im so happy for you guys. congrats.
The time goes by... too too fast... congrats.
here's to a great first year and many more to come! you two are a wonderful pair.
We're settling into the apartment here in 90272 now... the internet is up, the stereo works and the kitchen's coming together, but the rest of the joint looks like a storage unit... only not ours, our storage unit looked organized and very tetris-like. This looks like an accident. Anyway... it's all coming together, and we miss you all very much.Thanks for all the kind words and thoughts.
is like communism, it only works for awhile. People either get greedy, or you're in cuba, then it falls apart. I just sent this text to my supervisor; "will be late thurs. now single. soon drunk". sometiems i wish he knew how to reply to me, but i also think it's funny that i texted him in a telegram style. also, he's younger than i am, and my dad is his boss, and he's cool. Otherwise, i wouldn't have the nuts to send such a message.
a good set up for a great camping trip up north.
seven years of blissful marriage today!wow. has it really been 7?
that's 220,752,000 seconds....one site told me this is supposed to be the wool/copper anniversary. but i'm skipping ahead and getting karna a silver chain. and for me it was the steel/carbon fiber/lycra anniversary.
What is this television of which you speak???
So I guess I am coming to a lot of terms lately, and I am pretty much absolutely done with my crazy night life. Just plain sick of it, too much effort for an ultimately shallow conclusion (if even any conclusion). so I started thinking to myself where any of this is taking me, and I thoroughly decided that I really need someone substantial in my life. I have her in mind on top of it. Thus leading to my dilemma: I feel as though I am possibly taking advantage of a ladyfriend that might have or haven't been waiting for me. I'll call her choppy, for the sake of alias. I honestly don't know if this has merely been a joke for 4 years or if there is partial truth to the matter. Choppy has always been such a great friend but I always felt that we lived in two completely different demographics altogether, and I think we still do. I want to tell her how I feel but we are always entangled in social gatherings, where my nerves pulse and remain in paralysis. If Choppy has been waiting for me, what right do I have to honestly deserve her? In that case it makes me feel like the asshole I really have been to her. On top of all that, the weight in which we have known each other makes it too sacrificial to lose her in any way. I have a track record with women that has come to the point where it disgusts me. I feel as though that my stubborness really consumes too much of it and thats why I stand where I am today. I know what I have to do as far as settling this, but what I really want is the hard truth from someone. No sympathetic pity shit. Some may even have an idea (though doubtful) who Choppy is. My feelings are making me very confused and terribly shitty. I guess I need to vent for a second. thanks for the patience.
This is totally off the cuff and without any forethought or consideration, but I am the kind of person who is all about trying to be as honest as possible, without being a jerk. If you're really serious about this, and you and Choppy are legitimately friends anyway, then I think you should at least be able to be adventurous about it, see if things work out, and tell her how you feel (both good and bad) when the time is right. If it doesn't work out romantically, then you should still be able to be friends, right? I mean, it sounds like you've been friends for a long time.Don't start by declaring your undying love and about how you were such a big idiot or whatever -- start by hanging out with Choppy more, and by being legitimately open to the relationship. Don't try to hide it so much, but don't try to hard, either. If you are right and she's been waiting for you (or if not waiting, at least not dating! -- hah, that rhymes), but you are now suddenly truly open to the idea of getting together, I would think that things will naturally flow towards a relationship -- unless one or both ofyou find out that, now that you're standing in front of the river, you don't actually want to go swimming; that it sounded better before. But then that would be an answer.
If you do get to the river, and it still looks good, jump in feet first. Then you can explain about what a cad you feel like you've been and why. Chances are if you're hanging out it might already naturally come up that you're tired of your SupaNightlifePimpOfMysteray life along with whatever other kind of self-revelatory stuff you feel like you could mention out of a sense of honesty and also giving an indication to Choppy where you're ultimately going with the thought. But if she's not interested, or she hasn't been waiting, then you apologizing for keeping her waiting around will probably be very awkward, or worse come across in entirely the wrong way.
Things with the lofe of my live happened because we made time to spend together and just let it happen, even though there was (and is) years of history behind it all that eventually got to come out and get written down so that we can regale our grandchildren with the stories. There was plenty of time for self-revelation once it became known that such revelation would be constructive and meaningful.
But as I started -- please disregard this. I'm not even going to go back and reread it. Best of luck, J-man.
And I'll be brutally honest, but I also think it would be better done in person. I don't express myself well in writing unless it's scientific. Besides we havne't hung out in way too long Juice. I feel like living on the south side has completely alienated me from people. From now on every Monday I'm going to try to come up north and hang out after work.Back to the relationship, and I'm not even going to try and guess who it is. But I say Pedro is on the right track. Spend some time with her one-on-one and I think it's good you've come to realize you want something more, and someone, more important in your life. It's hard to find out if a friend can become something more but to quote the greatest artist of all time, Michael Bolton "How can we be lovers if we can't be friends."
I think you just need to ask her on a date, and don't pussy foot around it, make her know it's a date. Even just use the phrase; "hey you wanna go on a date Friday night?" It'd probably freak both of you out after saying it, but it's gotta come to that at some point, a leap to be made. If you're good enough friends that will last through it anyway. And besides if you're interested, and she probably is, only good will come of it. however, if she's not interested, and you are, it'd probably come between you at some point anyway.
If you need to feel like an ass, go right ahead; but if choppy really has been waiting for you to wise up, then, trust me, she is willing to forgive you your idiocy. However, she will be much delighted if you fess up to it in full and apologize--it's a girl thing... I don't know that I'd wait like Pedro suggested--I think I'd just come right out and say: this is what I've been thinking about lately, blah blah blah, I hope that you can understand where I'm coming from, I'd like your thoughts, and please still be my friend. I would say it somewhere where you both feel comfortable and where there won't be other people that you know around to pull attention. Then, you just hold your breath and hope that you make it through whatever comes after unscathed... Nothing is a safe bet where the heart is involved, but, even if she breaks yours, at least you'll know where she stands. And, since you seem to admire her so much, I find it hard to believe that she'd let honesty interfere in your friendship. Good luck.
but as one who has waited for another for long periods of time. don't make the one waiting wait longer than he/she has to. blvd is right just take the leap. but then again what do i know, i'm just the anonymous waiter; can i take your order?
just dump her and move on.actually... i didn't even read the post. i will read it later and reply for realz.
this girl carpools with me on thursdays, I don't know why, cause it probably only saves her like, five bucks (cause i don't like, demand that she gives me money, so really, she just gets a ride from me). anyway, she took me about for a beer tonight, it was nice, usually a beer only lasts like, five, ten minutes at the most. We sat at the "bar" for almost three hours. I almost hate to say it, but this girl is amazing. she's so musical and smart, and funny. she has crazier stories from high school than i do and to top it all off, she is absolutely stunning. When i look into her eyes, i get lost. anyway, we came back to the house so she could get her cello (it's pretty cold here) and i went back out with her and i was making chit chat, and i was like "well, have a good night" and she like, didn't reply. Now, i'm 26, and i don't know if i was like, supposed to do anything you know, give her a big ol slap on the back or something. gosh, i just feel like sometimes there's this tension (and yes, i like it) but i'm not a proactive person for the most part, generally speaking, i'm very reactive. I'm going to go nuts trying to figure out what, if anything, i was supposed to do. anyway, i'm rambling now....
...cue tumbleweed....
next time you see her tell her that the beer you went out for was nice, and that you should try something more filling in the future, like dinner on Friday, or something. I know it sounds cheesy, but hey it'd be a date then, and then you'd know what to do at the end of it.
she sees you every week. she took you out for beer. she sat at a bar with you for three hours. she tells you her crazy stories from high school. she likes you. the least you could do is tell her you like her too.
but my big concern, is that as great as she is, I'd rather have her as a friend that lose that possibility altogether through a bad breakup (i'm not a believe in the good kind...)
i like what people have said so far. especially blvdgirl.i think you both need to ask these girls out on dates. make sure they know that it's a date - but don't put too much pressure on it. act as if it's a crazy fun idea - "hey. crazy idea, but why don't you let me take you out on a date friday? it'll be fun!" and have something in mind. planned, in fact.
then take her out. plain and simple. show her a good time and pay attention to her, and be comfortable. be enthusiastic. be fun. have fun. if you feel like it's going in the direction you want it to, then i am a very big advocate of just kissing her.
actually, that worked for me. but i had figured out that Jackie was definitely the kind of girl that just needed me to take charge and kiss her. (she's a big John Wayne fan. that clinched it for me.)
you need to figure out if she's the kind of girl that needs to be kissed. if so, then do it. if not, then you need to talk it out. "hey. i'm not really sure what's going on here. I really enjoy spending time with you, and i think you do too. but i get the feeling that there might be something more here. if that's true, i'd like to explore it. what do you think?"
here's where you throw the ball in her court. if she's game, then i think she'll follow your lead here, and respond positively. if she's not, you haven't made it TOO awkward. you've taken a bit of the pressure off, and she can see that you're being sincere, and she has to know how hard this is for you to say. but you haven't backed down or given her a reason to think this is a bad idea. you've said you're into it, if she is. so, unless she's already considered this possibility and decided for sure that it will never happen (in which case, it never will) then i think she may at least stop to consider it for a good minute or two. she may still say no, but i think she'll let you down easy, at least. also, if she replies in the negative, you need to have the last word. not in a power-struggle kind of way. but, since you intitiated the topic, you need to clarify and close it. if she says 'no. blah blah blah i just want to be friends blah blah blah' then you reply "so there's nothing here? i was crazy and seeing things that weren't there? ok. i guess that settles that. moving on..." or something to that effect.
anyway, one way or another you've got to do something about it. you'll go crazy if you let it go. trust me.
All of this knowledge has been very beneficial for me. Pedro---hopefully she will be the lofe of my life. blvd---I had almost forgotten the advice of a woman having no lived mith my sisters for so long. Thank you. Big J----Man I haven't seen you since earlier tonight. "I choose a mortal life". (legolas- what a cool ass fag!) No matter how distant we grow I'll still be down. I'm just that F-F-F-FRESH! And you know this. I totally should have gone to Harolds when I had the chance. Maybe next time. I certainly don't think the same as I used to. I think bigj and his wife feel it off me without having to say anything, which is an awesome movie I might add. but movie talk is for another post. Thank you all for the confidence.
you know I can read you like a book, we've been friends too long for me not to be able too, and the wife is the same way. She can read you and me too easily. But it was great to hang with you, it's going to be my goal to do more things like that with friends, and it should be your goal to get with that girl. If you want it, and she wants it, what's the delay?
I re-read this entire entree today (in three sittings). It felt like time travel. I especially got a kick out of it because baggins started it as a forum to get advice and support and now is so happy and confident in his relationship with his beloved that he now freely gives advice and support... Ultimately, that is what this whole diner thing is about, right? I like you guys a bunch, and, on this Thanksgiving Eve, I'm feeling very thankful for all of you.
so i say to this girl, a girl that i can't read at all (nothing new here), "so hypothetically speaking, if i asked you to dinner, would you like to go, or would you be opposed to that idea?" and she says "it's not that, i'm just so busy". Now, i get this one part that says "it's not that" and i understand that to mean, "i'd like to but..." and then there's this other part where she says "i'm just so busy" which i understand to mean "not a snowballs chance in hell". Now, she is busy 20 credits and all that jazz, but still, still. Not that it matters, and really, i'm just throwing it out there cause i thinks it's "funny" or something like it.
and to all of you who helped me along on my journey of true love </sap>.Tom: i think she's giving you a noncommital answer because you're giving her a noncommital proposition. perhaps you need to just flat out say "I'd really like to take you out for dinner (give her a couple different nights to choose from). would you like to go with me?" assume confidence and assume that it's perfectly natural for you to invite her and to expect her to be interested. she may give you a better answer.
then again, she may just be brushing you off.
neo, is this the carpool cello girl?
No self respecting college student is "too busy" for free food. Baggs is right, make a real offer, get a real answer.
tom, sounds like she probably thinks you're a cool guy and interesting and all that but isn't interested and is brushing you off gently hoping you'll take the hint and she won't have to be harsher.that's just what it seems like to me. i wouldn't recommend asking again.
but maybe this is the wrong entree for this kind of response.
that's what i was thinking too, i asked her and was just like, you know, if you just don't want to, you can just tell me and it won't be a problem or whatever, to which she replied "dude, you're way overanalytical sometimes".
smax, I don't know where you went to school, so i can't compare 20 creds at ISU with the same load at your school but, at npu taking twenty credits wasn't a big deal I knew people that were doing it all the time....well maybe not all the time. Anyway, this is the craziest 20 i've ever heard of, six hour labs and the like, hell, i had to take an engineering course just to figure out how to make a class schedule that would allow me time to work six hours a week. but yeah, food....
I got really bored in my insomnia and I re-read most of this entree again (pretty ironic that blvdgirl just did the same thing), although, in my case, I've been AWOL for far too long.Baggins, a belated congratulations, man. I'm happy for you and your new bride.
But as to me....
Bozeman is such a desert. And my closest female friend just left for Easter Island (yes, Easter Island) cause she fell in love with a native guy on a film shoot. And over the last year, I find myself moving farther and farther away from the whole notion of marriage. For those of you who knew me at NPU, you know what a 180 degree turn this is. It's not that I'm not romantic, I am. But the more I have my own space, the more I find that I need it. Of course, I always leave open the possibility of a brick in the head from God, but....
It's actually been good to be able to focus on the other areas of my life that need attention right now. Of course, I'm sure as soon as I leave...
Not really sure what I'm saying, except that I certainly feel more comfortable in my own skin, which, I suppose, is the point - the Universe's way of telling me I had a LOT of growing to do before i inflict that which is scinatfilm on to the women of the world (tongue in cheek)
I guess this forum seemed the right place to air this stuff.
Thanks for all the fish.
what fish?
not being online more than a half dozen times in 6 months is crazy and therapeutic, but now that Im online again, and visiting the diner and sifting through old posts because i was too lazy to type in my name and password, looky looky at the old post:Is This A Date?, posted 17 Nov 2003 by baggins ยป (Fixture)
last week, i emailed *her* to see what she was up to Friday. she said had something at church later, and she got home from class at 2:30, but her afternoon and evening was free. we made plans, and i came by, and we decided to go see Matrix:Convolutions. i paid. i took her home, and stopped in to say hello to her parents, who are super cool.
her dad told me i should borrow this sweet-ass Gibson Les Paul bass he picked up, and i could borrow it as long as i wanted until he found somebody to buy it. he practically begged me to take it home.
then i took off. she would have come to the NPU play with me last night, but she had a wedding to go to.
anyway, was that a DATE?
awwww.
is from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
yeah, we still joke about how we were both nervous and didn't know whether certain events were dates, or what.she's something else, though. i'm really glad i met her and things worked out. she's made me the happiest i've ever been, and she finds ways to love me i didn't think i would ever appreciate, but i do.
i still have that bass. and he's never asked me for it since that day. i plan on keeping it. (raskol played that bass in the wedding ceremony, actually)
Sarah Beck$tr0m and her fiance are now in IL. She met Papy in the Democratic Republic of C0ngo. That's something! Sarah grew up near smax and me and went to n p u and worked at c p b c.I get very excited when I find out that Diner folks and kids from home are in love, having babies or happy with their work. I'm a girl.
i remember working with Sar@h. she was cool beans. a bit quiet and not like the other kids, but i always found that endearing.
Maybe I'm the only one that does this, but I hate that awkward stage in a pre-relationship when you over-analyze everything... No email today... That's bad, right? Maybe I should email, after all, I want to... But, no, that's desperate and forward, isn't it? Or is it?... Should I call? I called last time. Maybe I should let him take the initiative this time... But what if he doesn't? What if he doesn't want to? Am I calling too much? Am I neurotic and co-dependent and pushy and un-feminine? Etc...
Long and short of it is that I can drive myself crazy, and the guy can (and should, I think) be absolutely oblivious...
side note- I'm not even sure how interested I am yet...
just call, if you want to call. or email.if you're interested, then that's cool. nothing wrong with that. don't read so much into it. if you call, just tell him that you wanted to talk to him. it's honest, you get to call, you get to hear his voice...
you can't win if you don't play.
... if you're actually not sure how interested you are, then maybe you should take a deep breath and just keep being yourself rather than overanalyzing it. don't let opportunities pass you by, but don't pounce on something you're not sure you want. also, don't listen to nerds on the internet.
I don't think that everyone else reads as carefully as English majors, so most of us don't know how crazy they are.I also think that flirting is very fun and that if you have the opportunity to do it, you should. I think that you'd be good at it.
I should be asleep, I really should.BUt as I was realizing that i haven't been on here in awhile and starting reading, I thought, what the heck.
So I'm single again after two very different relationships that lasted for most of the time i've been back in Chicago.
The first one was really good. It was hyper-intense, and since I've known her for years and she's really close with my family, it went from just friends to asking myself if i could marry this girl in a matter of months. We realized the timing wasn't right, plus she had some growing up to do and i had to get my life back now that I have a job and a place of my own. After the long break-up process, we're becoming friends again. We didn't completely close the door on the future, but since we stopped dating in January, I've come to realize that, for both of us, it would be settling if we were to get married. The big process for me in this whole relationship was coming to terms with that, if it came to it.
Less than a month after we broke up, I met a girl at a party and we started casually dating. i wanted to just relax and have fun. The problem was that i completely shut off my brain. As a result, we had a good time together, but I wasn't really invested in the relationship. I let it go on longer than I should. It ended on a good note, so that's good, but I realized I need to be more purposeful in proceeding with a "relationship."
I think though, that I've come out of these two relationships with a much clearer picture of what I want and who I want in a long term relationship. so that's good.
i guess that's all, really, though it's been a little weird to go from almost no relationships for a long time to two in eight months.
I got married six weeks ago.Ridiculously fun times with the most amazing fellow I've ever known. I highly recommend marriage!
yay!
are you going to share photos?
I can't take the plain meaning.I enter your space, my body in pieces, each one awkward
against the seat and the door, bumping at the glove box.
__________________
What's mine is yours and what's yours is--
we spend the whole day trying to articulate the other,
smiling, not sure when the other is joking. This is
a mess of a date, if that's what it is, a success at conversation,
________________
not a means to an end, and isn't that my biggest problem,
that I've got an end in mind that needs another person, but I can't let myself
think of anyone as a means to an end.
I really like it. :)
First, some of my high school friends had babies. Then some of my high school friends got married. Then some of the kids I babysat had babies, and some of them got married. Then some of my university friends got married. Then some of my graduate school friends got married. Then some of my 30's/40's friends with specific interests started to get married. Then some of my university friends had babies. Then some of my graduate school friends had babies. Then some of my university friends got divorced. Then some of my high school friends got divorced. Now again some of my 30's/40's friends with specific interests are getting married. This happens periodically and gives me hope. This week a university friend started her second marriage.
When I was a little girl, I thought that all people got married. When I hit my twenties, I realized that not everyone does. When I hit my thirties, I figured that I probably wouldn't... Life is full of surprises.
Engagement Party/Pre-Wedding Reception in Chicago July 17. Everyone's invited.